If Chris Samuels does retire..?

BrunellMVP? · 10-21-2009, 12:41 PM

so if he hangs it up (which i hope he does for the sake of his health)- we take a 14.4 (ish) mill cap hit right in his release, right? Does the NFL give you any injury relief? I know 2010 could be uncapped anyway, but I just want to know what we would be looking at cap wise.

Mattyk · 10-21-2009, 12:44 PM

There's no injury relief, we have to take the hit.

GTripp0012 · 10-21-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

There's no injury relief, we have to take the hit.

Well, the money guaranteed to him has to hit the cap sometime. But I don't think it will accelerate. Deion didn't play here in 2001 or 2002, but they didn't accelerate his cap hit until December of 2002.

I'd imagine you could do something with Samuels that's similar.

JoeRedskin · 10-21-2009, 02:18 PM

^^ I wonder if we could IR him for the 2010-2011 year, pay his salary, then cut him in April of 2011 designating him a 2011-12 cut - eating up three years of pro-rated salary cap (2009-10, 10-11, 11-12) and be hit only with the remainder for the 2012 year.
His salary for the 2010-211 is only ~1.6M, but his release fee is 14M.

In this way, and if I am reading the Canuck's cap sheets correctly, he would count against the cap 4.8 in 2010-11, ~3m in 11-12 (prorated portion of SB only), and ~7M in 12-13 (accelerated signing bonus).

The obvious problem is paying him his base pay in 2010-11. It is relatively low, but I am sure it is more than DS wants to pay someone who will not be playing.

Not sure if this is right - you would need Schneed or Canuck to check. But, basically, if DS pays his salary for a year, I think you can spread out his cap hit over an additional three years rather than taking it all next year.

JoeRedskin · 10-21-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, the money guaranteed to him has to hit the cap sometime. But I don't think it will accelerate. Deion didn't play here in 2001 or 2002, but they didn't accelerate his cap hit until December of 2002.

I'd imagine you could do something with Samuels that's similar.

I am almost 100% certain that if you trade or cut a player, any remaining signing bonus is accelerated into the current year. You would have to manipulate the release date in some fashion.

GTripp0012 · 10-21-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

^^ I wonder if we could IR him for the 2010-2011 year, pay his salary, then cut him in April of 2011 designating him a 2011-12 cut - eating up three years of pro-rated salary cap (2009-10, 10-11, 11-12) and be hit only with the remainder for the 2012 year.
His salary for the 2010-211 is only ~1.6M, but his release fee is 14M.

In this way, and if I am reading the Canuck's cap sheets correctly, he would count against the cap 4.8 in 2010-11, ~3m in 11-12 (prorated portion of SB only), and ~7M in 12-13 (accelerated signing bonus).

The obvious problem is paying him his base pay in 2010-11. It is relatively low, but I am sure it is more than DS wants to pay someone who will not be playing.

Not sure if this is right - you would need Schneed or Canuck to check. But, basically, if DS pays his salary for a year, I think you can spread out his cap hit over an additional three years rather than taking it all next year.

I think (but am not sure) that's what the reserve/retired list is. You don't have to pay the base salary, as said player is retired, but you also don't have to accelerate the cap hit, because he's still "on the books" technically.

We wouldn't be paying him another dime for work he's not doing, it would just be a realization of the previously paid bonus dollars over the rest of the contract. So if he's through 2014, then his cap number in each year would be whatever it was scheduled as in the cap sheets, minus all forms of non-guarenteed money.

Which, I imagine would be in the $2 million range per year. And while I'm hazy on the rules of this, I think we could accelerate the contract at any time simply by giving up his rights. Otherwise, we would hold his rights through the end of the contract he signed.

GTripp0012 · 10-21-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I am almost 100% certain that if you trade or cut a player, any remaining signing bonus is accelerated into the current year. You would have to manipulate the release date in some fashion.

Well, that's exactly it. He's not being released.

If I'm wrong, someone who is more well-versed in the CBA should correct me.

JoeRedskin · 10-21-2009, 02:46 PM

Okay. I see what you're saying. I am unaware of a "reserved/retired" list that lets you keep a player on your books but you may be right. I was pretty sure that if a player files for retirement then their hit gets accelerated.

It would seem a pretty easy way to manipulate the acceleration mechanism if true.

As with you, I leave it to the cap experts - my original statement was meant more as "Can this be done?" for them.

Mattyk · 10-21-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

What happens if a player is traded or retires?

Answer: We already know that if a player is waived on or before June 1, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Acceleration also occurs when a player is traded or waived and picked up by another team. The new team is not responsible for any of the original signing bonus. The team that waived or traded the player is responsible for the accelerated signing bonus (in the same manner as described above).

In most cases, if a player retires, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Thus, the team will take an immediate salary cap hit of the remaining signing bonus.

Ask The Commish.com - Salary Cap FAQ

mooby · 10-21-2009, 11:48 PM

Just a little captain obvious here but I was watching ESPNEWS and Adam Schefter said on the ticker that he's not likely to play for the rest of the season and that he's probably gonna retire. I figure once he gets 3-4 opinions if he even goes that far then he'll eventually come to terms with it and retire so we'll have to eat the rest of his signing bonus.

10-21-2009, 12:41 PM	#76
BrunellMVP? Impact Rookie Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 726	Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..? so if he hangs it up (which i hope he does for the sake of his health)- we take a 14.4 (ish) mill cap hit right in his release, right? Does the NFL give you any injury relief? I know 2010 could be uncapped anyway, but I just want to know what we would be looking at cap wise. __________________ in writing these daily letters and trying to make them interesting it is always possible that some sentiment may occur which has not received the severe and deliberate scrutiny and reconsideration which should attach to a State Paper. - Churchill

10-21-2009, 12:44 PM	#77
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 42 Posts: 84,577	Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..? There's no injury relief, we have to take the hit. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

10-21-2009, 02:18 PM	#79
JoeRedskin Contains football related knowledge Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Second Star On The Right Age: 52 Posts: 8,994	Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..? ^^ I wonder if we could IR him for the 2010-2011 year, pay his salary, then cut him in April of 2011 designating him a 2011-12 cut - eating up three years of pro-rated salary cap (2009-10, 10-11, 11-12) and be hit only with the remainder for the 2012 year. His salary for the 2010-211 is only ~1.6M, but his release fee is 14M. In this way, and if I am reading the Canuck's cap sheets correctly, he would count against the cap 4.8 in 2010-11, ~3m in 11-12 (prorated portion of SB only), and ~7M in 12-13 (accelerated signing bonus). The obvious problem is paying him his base pay in 2010-11. It is relatively low, but I am sure it is more than DS wants to pay someone who will not be playing. Not sure if this is right - you would need Schneed or Canuck to check. But, basically, if DS pays his salary for a year, I think you can spread out his cap hit over an additional three years rather than taking it all next year. __________________ You aren't worth the water in my spit but, maybe, just maybe, you're worth the lead in my shotgun.

10-21-2009, 02:46 PM	#83
JoeRedskin Contains football related knowledge Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Second Star On The Right Age: 52 Posts: 8,994	Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..? Okay. I see what you're saying. I am unaware of a "reserved/retired" list that lets you keep a player on your books but you may be right. I was pretty sure that if a player files for retirement then their hit gets accelerated. It would seem a pretty easy way to manipulate the acceleration mechanism if true. As with you, I leave it to the cap experts - my original statement was meant more as "Can this be done?" for them. __________________ You aren't worth the water in my spit but, maybe, just maybe, you're worth the lead in my shotgun.

10-21-2009, 11:48 PM	#85
mooby MVP Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NoVa Age: 26 Posts: 12,156	Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..? Just a little captain obvious here but I was watching ESPNEWS and Adam Schefter said on the ticker that he's not likely to play for the rest of the season and that he's probably gonna retire. I figure once he gets 3-4 opinions if he even goes that far then he'll eventually come to terms with it and retire so we'll have to eat the rest of his signing bonus.

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If Chris Samuels does retire..?

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