The Collins Sighting

warriorzpath · 10-18-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Yeah, but not this bad. Aaron Rodgers is getting crushed this year and they still manage to score points. They had 23 against the Vikes, and he got sacked 8 times. JC got sacked 8 times in the first 4 games combined, and the Skins still couldn't do shit. Also, Big Ben and Matt Cassel got sacked more than JC last year, and the Pats went 11-5 and the Steelers won it all. The Vikes were all over Flacco today, and they still scored 31. A poor O-line definitely doesn't help, but nothing can excuse the Skins Offensive production this year. A QB playing at a high level can still make things happen when protection breaks down. Can they score 45 points in a half like the Pats, maybe not. But can they still manage 20 plus points. Yes, happens all the time.

I do agree with the main point of this - it's more on the qb than it is on the offensive line.

And to make it clearer of how unexcusable Campbell's play has been most of this season - Todd Collins, a career backup, comes in the second half and even though doesn't light it up, there is not a drop-off of offensive production. The offense argubly got better and I assume that he didn't any quality snaps in practice during this preceding week - which can make a huge difference (although with Zorn, I don't know what to expect).

GTripp0012 · 10-18-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I do agree with the main point of this - it's more on the qb than it is on the offensive line.

And to make it clearer of how unexcusable Campbell's play has been most of this season - Todd Collins, a career backup, comes in the second half and even though doesn't light it up, there is not a drop-off of offensive production. The offense argubly got better and I assume that he didn't any quality snaps in practice during this preceding week - which can make a huge difference (although with Zorn, I don't know what to expect).

There was a major dropoff in production though, and an equally obvious increase in hilarity.

Anyone who says otherwise wasn't paying attention. Put it this way: Campbell has now had three games where he was held without a TD pass or a FG attempt in the first half. The first two games, we scored 17 and 14 points. This game, we scored six, and no touchdows. If that's not a dropoff, I have no idea what a dropoff is.

warriorzpath · 10-18-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

There was a major dropoff in production though, and an equally obvious increase in hilarity.

Anyone who says otherwise wasn't paying attention.

No. 2 field goals for a Collins lead offense. no points for Campbell behind the same exact offensive line and against the same exact team.

GTripp0012 · 10-18-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

No. 2 field goals for a Collins lead offense. no points for Campbell behind the same exact offensive line and against the same exact team.

Oooooooh, two field goals.

That's so much better than any second half Jason Campbell had this year. And not our worst second half output of the year or anything.

warriorzpath · 10-18-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Oooooooh, two field goals.

That's so much better than any second half Jason Campbell had this year. And not our worst second half output of the year or anything.

Please, when you compare campbell vs collins in this game. It's apples vs apples, but collins didn't have close to the same preparation time in practice this week as campbell.

But do you see what I'm getting at, comparing a career second stringer to a starter. This should be a big difference at this point in Campbell's career, not arguing over who is better.

GTripp0012 · 10-18-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Please, when you compare campbell vs collins in this game. It's apples vs apples, but collins didn't have close to the same preparation time in practice this week as campbell.

But do you see what I'm getting at, comparing a career second stringer to a starter. This should be a big difference at this point in Campbell's career, not arguing over who is better.

It's not apples vs. apples. It's a ridiculously small sample, in a game where the second quarterback looked hopelessly lost and like he should have retired two years ago.

My comparison very well might be imperfect, by I'm at least trying to frame it in a context that makes sense. Collins was complete crap out there, and I'm sure a lot of that's the offensive line and receivers. I mean, they still suck, obviously. But Collins didn't have a clue out there. That was painful, but it also was obvious.

warriorzpath · 10-18-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's not apples vs. apples. It's a ridiculously small sample, in a game where the second quarterback looked hopelessly lost and like he should have retired two years ago.

My comparison very well might be imperfect, by I'm at least trying to frame it in a context that makes sense. Collins was complete crap out there, and I'm sure a lot of that's the offensive line and receivers. I mean, they still suck, obviously. But Collins didn't have a clue out there. That was painful, but it also was obvious.

Just face it, Campbell is done. Even with Collins not having a clue, he outplayed Campbell. The proof is right there. 6 points to Campbell's 0 points. I really don't care about sample size. This season's offensive failures so far is enough of a sample to me.

GTripp0012 · 10-18-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Just face it, Campbell is done. Even with Collins not having a clue, he outplayed Campbell. The proof is right there. 6 points to Campbell's 0 points. I really don't care about sample size. This season's offensive failures so far is enough of a sample to me.

I don't really care about what you don't care about. The point is, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Campbell will probably start next Monday night.

DynamiteRave · 10-18-2009, 07:35 PM

Collins is a mere band-aid over a gaping wound.

There are problems far larger than the QB situation going here and neither JC nor Collins nor effing Tom Brady could fix it.

... Okay maybe Tom Brady.

Beemnseven · 10-18-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Cameron and Saunders are from the Coryell, Gibbs, Zampese, Turner, Martz tree of offensive philosophy. I was on record saying that throwing JC into a WCO was a mistake, akin to shoving a square peg in a round hole. So now you want the FO to go back to the Coryell philosophy? What about continuity? Even if Campbell isn't here, weren't Kelly, Davis, and Thomas drafted with the WCO in mind?

Excellent point. What a complete botch-job by the front office for making the jump to the WCO -- with a completely inexperienced head coach/offensive coordinator to boot.

warriorzpath · 10-18-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't really care about what you don't care about. The point is, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Campbell will probably start next Monday night.

You say I have no idea what I'm talking about after you saying that Collins looks lost and there was a dropoff in offensive production after he came in. Man...

wordsmithgk · 10-18-2009, 07:40 PM

I think it doesn't matter who the qb is and i think this game showed that. The problem is the design of the offense itself. It does not maximize the talent of the players. The players are not given an opportunity to be successful. It is a poorly conceived and ineffective gameplan week in and week out.

GTripp0012 · 10-18-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

You say I have no idea what I'm talking about after you saying that Collins looks lost and there was a dropoff in offensive production after he came in. Man...

There was a dropoff in offensive production. Sort of. Portis just happened to have his longest run in four years while Collins was in there. Of course, Todd couldn't get us into the end zone.

I'm ever grateful for the magical run he took us on two years ago, but he's a career long scrub outisde of those four games. Campbell might not ever develop into anything more than he is now, but the comparison is completely ridiculous.

redskinsgirl · 10-18-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Collins is a mere band-aid over a gaping wound.

There are problems far larger than the QB situation going here and neither JC nor Collins nor effing Tom Brady could fix it.

... Okay maybe Tom Brady.

I agree.

GTripp0012 · 10-18-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordsmithgk

I think it doesn't matter who the qb is and i think this game showed that. The problem is the design of the offense itself. It does not maximize the talent of the players. The players are not given an opportunity to be successful. It is a poorly conceived and ineffective gameplan week in and week out.

I really think that this is correct. We were getting production from the QB position, but not winning. Taking that production away isn't going to make our offense particularly more inept. We have to learn how to win with defense, because we haven't been able to do that in two years.

View Poll Results: Who should be the Redskins starting QB next week?
Collins	39	42.39%
Campbell	53	57.61%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

10-18-2009, 07:35 PM	#69
DynamiteRave Franchise Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Washington DC Age: 26 Posts: 9,811	Re: The Collins Sighting Collins is a mere band-aid over a gaping wound. There are problems far larger than the QB situation going here and neither JC nor Collins nor effing Tom Brady could fix it. ... Okay maybe Tom Brady. __________________ Establishment, establishment, you always know what's best. I'm a chick, damnit.

10-18-2009, 07:40 PM	#72
wordsmithgk Special Teams Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Raleigh NC Age: 50 Posts: 152	Re: The Collins Sighting I think it doesn't matter who the qb is and i think this game showed that. The problem is the design of the offense itself. It does not maximize the talent of the players. The players are not given an opportunity to be successful. It is a poorly conceived and ineffective gameplan week in and week out.

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The Collins Sighting

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