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Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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Old 10-29-2009, 07:26 PM   #91
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
you are one of the only cowboy fans that I have heard that gives Jerry credit for bringing those three rings. True they were earned after he bought the team but not really won by his GM moves.

I've said this before, but hey I like to read my own words, so here it goes:

DS and JJ are a very interesting compare/contrast case study.
The basic similarities:

Both bought major sports teams rich in tradition. Both are marketing saavy, even gurus. Both have teams that are in the middle of LONG SB droughts. Both have extreme egos. Both like to meddle. Both want to achieve long term successful franchise status.(some may argue it, but i believe it and it's my study so nyah nyah nyah)

The background contrasts:

JJ openly claims to be GM. DS doesn't, but most say he is overly active in football decisions.

The case study:
JJ won 3 SBs early, and that cemented his belief that his way is the right approach. Therefore it is very hard for him to change his overall approach to the team, and very unlikely that he will give up GM authority anytime soon.

DS has not won any SBs. He has progressively tried different approaches that increase/decrease his direct interference. His first approach was hire aged fantasy players. It failed. (a pause and reflect occurred with Marty, but it failed as he could not keep his hands out) His second approach was hire fantasy coaches - the apex here was the Gibbs/Saunders/Williams trifecta. It failed. now we are in another lull where he tried to pull one out of his hip pocket, it obviously failed.

The question:
Which path, either quick SB's wins - characterized by stubborn belief in self, or no wins - characterized by continual change and adjustment, will lead to a quicker establishment of a long term winning team. Or will both be continual cellar dwellers.

Only the shadow knows.

great post

Look here's the thing you have to give credit to jerry not only he brought Jimmy, and you can't say it wasn't by his GM moves because we don't know what happens behind those doors and how much it was Jimmy and how much Jerry. But part of a good GM is bringing a good HC and give him the talent he needs to succeed and that's what Jerry did.

His problem after his feud with Jimmy he thought he was the key to success and didn't believe he needed a good HC because he knew best dumb move that set this franchise back for years.

But at least he has learned from his mistakes; we've seen him stop building this team through FA and doing it with good draft picks and he has kept those good players and not let them leave in FA. So for that he's doing a great Job hey we just saw how he managed to resign Ware to a Great Contract but not a contract that will set back this team or put them in Salary Cap hell.

Yeah he has make a lot of dummy moves and sometimes I don't agree with some decision he makes but, Do I believe he has the best interest of the Dallas Cowboys at hand. Yes I do.

The difference with Snider is that he has made some changes but hasn't learned from any this franchise is no different that what it was when he bought it.
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Old 10-29-2009, 08:22 PM   #92
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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Originally Posted by D'BOYZ View Post
great post

Look here's the thing you have to give credit to jerry not only he brought Jimmy, and you can't say it wasn't by his GM moves because we don't know what happens behind those doors and how much it was Jimmy and how much Jerry. But part of a good GM is bringing a good HC and give him the talent he needs to succeed and that's what Jerry did.

His problem after his feud with Jimmy he thought he was the key to success and didn't believe he needed a good HC because he knew best dumb move that set this franchise back for years.

But at least he has learned from his mistakes; we've seen him stop building this team through FA and doing it with good draft picks and he has kept those good players and not let them leave in FA. So for that he's doing a great Job hey we just saw how he managed to resign Ware to a Great Contract but not a contract that will set back this team or put them in Salary Cap hell.

Yeah he has make a lot of dummy moves and sometimes I don't agree with some decision he makes but, Do I believe he has the best interest of the Dallas Cowboys at hand. Yes I do.

The difference with Snider is that he has made some changes but hasn't learned from any this franchise is no different that what it was when he bought it.
also a good post.

You certainly have a clearer view of JJ, and you give him much more credit than I do. In terms of Snyder, I may be alone, but I think he is slowly learning what it means to be a great owner. In my statement of his progressions, I see a trend towards finding the "secret". But Football is not a sport of quick trial and error, it is a long patient building and crescendo. Yes we have had a decade of failure, but where you say the franchise is no different then when he bought it, I say the owner is a far different owner than the one who bought it. Most on this site, and certainly the media would have you see an owner who is a tyrant. I don't see it, I see a man who entrusted a team to Steve Spurrier and used all his resources to get what Spurrier wanted. A failed effort yes, but tyrannical - no. I see an owner who went out and coaxed THE living legend back, and when JG said he needed the best coaches, he went out and got them, signed checks and everything. Again, a failed product but tyrannical not to me. I see an owner who brought in a man he trusted, and let him pick his head coach, got him the best FA, overpriced but in the prime of their careers, listened to his man at the draft. Misplaced trust yes, a failed product yes, but dictatorial, no.

So yes the franchise product is the same. and we all know that in our media satiated, make it work now, patience is idiotic world, today's product is all that matters.
BUT in the world of pro football where a players value from the 2007 draft may not even be fully known 2 years later, the owner is attempting to find a path to bringing a perpetual winner to Washington, and probably having to deal with many of his deepest shortcomings and flaws in doing so.
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Old 10-29-2009, 08:24 PM   #93
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

Please visit "Save Our Redskins (Fire Vinny)" on Facebook and become a fan. Join the movement to change the way OUR team is run!
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:48 PM   #94
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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Please visit "Save Our Redskins (Fire Vinny)" on Facebook and become a fan. Join the movement to change the way OUR team is run!
Geez whats with the spam lately?
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:19 PM   #95
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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Geez whats with the spam lately?
Some people cannot face the fact that they are helpless in terms of changing Dan Snyder.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:21 AM   #96
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
Someone asked earlier on here what big name HC Danny Boy had brought in here with big time credentials and rings. Does the name Joe Gibbs ring any bells here?


If - - I said IF - - Jeff Fisher gets sufficiently crosswise with the Tennessee owner over Adams' "pressure" to have Vince Young as the starting QB and that situation winds up in his getting fired, there are two things you have to consider:


1. Jeff Fisher will not need to find work immediately because he will be "getting paid" on the rest of the contract in Tennessee that he was finrd under.


2. If he just got fired by a meddling owner who made him do something with regard to football operations that he might not have wanted to do, what would make him interested in coming to work for Danny Boy? Jeff Fisher is NOT a stupid man...
For what it's worth, from the accounts I have read, Bud Adams is....jerk. and for the most part the Dan is not. Does that mean JF is on his way here? Probably not. The only point is JF may look at the Dan as a doable situation?
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:57 AM   #97
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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For what it's worth, from the accounts I have read, Bud Adams is....jerk. and for the most part the Dan is not. Does that mean JF is on his way here? Probably not. The only point is JF may look at the Dan as a doable situation?

I know this is taking a major leap of faith, but i would hope moving forward that DS would allow a coach like JF and presumably our new GM, majority control and allow the coach to coach. I think he would (like JG). Now, who knows, JF, if available, may dislike DS enough not to consider it.
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Old 10-30-2009, 10:03 AM   #98
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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Geez whats with the spam lately?
You mean the Dallas fans?
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Old 10-30-2009, 10:11 AM   #99
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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Geez whats with the spam lately?
Yeah it's beyond annoying.

Everyone who thinks they have something important to say with a lame Facebook page apparently thinks it's alright to spam message boards.

If you're going to get the word out on something do it the right way, that's all I'm saying.
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:58 PM   #100
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

Jeff Fisher has had a great NFL career. But really people, do you want to see another coach come in here who is depending on past success to get him over? Fisher is an upgrade for sure but there's no way he would make a difference with this team unless Snyder gets him a true General Manager.
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:16 AM   #101
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
also a good post.

You certainly have a clearer view of JJ, and you give him much more credit than I do. In terms of Snyder, I may be alone, but I think he is slowly learning what it means to be a great owner. In my statement of his progressions, I see a trend towards finding the "secret". But Football is not a sport of quick trial and error, it is a long patient building and crescendo. Yes we have had a decade of failure, but where you say the franchise is no different then when he bought it, I say the owner is a far different owner than the one who bought it. Most on this site, and certainly the media would have you see an owner who is a tyrant. I don't see it, I see a man who entrusted a team to Steve Spurrier and used all his resources to get what Spurrier wanted. A failed effort yes, but tyrannical - no. I see an owner who went out and coaxed THE living legend back, and when JG said he needed the best coaches, he went out and got them, signed checks and everything. Again, a failed product but tyrannical not to me. I see an owner who brought in a man he trusted, and let him pick his head coach, got him the best FA, overpriced but in the prime of their careers, listened to his man at the draft. Misplaced trust yes, a failed product yes, but dictatorial, no.

So yes the franchise product is the same. and we all know that in our media satiated, make it work now, patience is idiotic world, today's product is all that matters.
BUT in the world of pro football where a players value from the 2007 draft may not even be fully known 2 years later, the owner is attempting to find a path to bringing a perpetual winner to Washington, and probably having to deal with many of his deepest shortcomings and flaws in doing so.
Although I agree with your past observations you have to realize the Dictator/tyrant part is where we are currently at. I honestly think DS didn't want fans showing up on Mon. night football blasting him, VC, Zorn, or the Skins. It would make the team look bad which is why I think he put certain wheels in motion.

At this point I think DS has lost control of the team. I mean this in the sense that I think he gives an order and the people given the job to carry out the order take it too far. Perhaps there was a "No Sign" policy then those same security people took it another step further and added T-shirts. Maybe he did tell his lawyers we can't have fans bailing on us and not paying us and they took it a step further and started filing suit against all fans instead of looking at it on a case by case basis. Little old ladies who's husbands have died and can't afford the tickets anymore are not the people you want to go after. Nor does it give the team good media going after any fan when you tout your long waiting list. Simply take the tickets back and hand them over to another fan...move on. Maybe he did tell VC he's not looking to fire Zorn at this point and VC say Zorn is going to remain with the team and hopefully into the future. The beer in the bathroom is an Osha issue. You can't have food sold in the bathroom near so many germs people will get sick. Now is this DS's fault? Only in the sense that he needs to be clear about what he wants and how it gets carried out. The beer in the bathroom issue should have been handled by somebody and hopefully it was shortly after the video was taken, but it doesn't bode well that after first being reported two yrs ago someone is still selling beer in the bathroom.
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:51 PM   #102
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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Although I agree with your past observations you have to realize the Dictator/tyrant part is where we are currently at. I honestly think DS didn't want fans showing up on Mon. night football blasting him, VC, Zorn, or the Skins. It would make the team look bad which is why I think he put certain wheels in motion.

At this point I think DS has lost control of the team. I mean this in the sense that I think he gives an order and the people given the job to carry out the order take it too far. Perhaps there was a "No Sign" policy then those same security people took it another step further and added T-shirts. Maybe he did tell his lawyers we can't have fans bailing on us and not paying us and they took it a step further and started filing suit against all fans instead of looking at it on a case by case basis. Little old ladies who's husbands have died and can't afford the tickets anymore are not the people you want to go after. Nor does it give the team good media going after any fan when you tout your long waiting list. Simply take the tickets back and hand them over to another fan...move on. Maybe he did tell VC he's not looking to fire Zorn at this point and VC say Zorn is going to remain with the team and hopefully into the future. The beer in the bathroom is an Osha issue. You can't have food sold in the bathroom near so many germs people will get sick. Now is this DS's fault? Only in the sense that he needs to be clear about what he wants and how it gets carried out. The beer in the bathroom issue should have been handled by somebody and hopefully it was shortly after the video was taken, but it doesn't bode well that after first being reported two yrs ago someone is still selling beer in the bathroom.
remember this, in any job, the guy writing the checks ALWAYS gets what he wants. if he felt he was losing control, there would be a mass exodus of employees leaving redskin park as " former" employees
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:20 PM   #103
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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Yeah it's beyond annoying.

Everyone who thinks they have something important to say with a lame Facebook page apparently thinks it's alright to spam message boards.

If you're going to get the word out on something do it the right way, that's all I'm saying.
You never see Giants or Cowboys fans spaming the board. Typical white collar redskins fan.
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Old 10-31-2009, 04:22 PM   #104
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

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remember this, in any job, the guy writing the checks ALWAYS gets what he wants. if he felt he was losing control, there would be a mass exodus of employees leaving redskin park as " former" employees
There's two problems to your hypothesis....

1) Times are hard and finding jobs is not easy so no one is leaving unless fired which I presume you meant.

2) It's only been 1 month since all this garbage started leaking out.
Little old ladies getting sued.
Beer in bathroom.
No sign policy.
No derogitory T-shirts--only to hear T-shirts were fine minus bad words.

I still think he's giving the orders and people are going over board with his requests. I could be wrong and DS is a complete ass making these decisions. but in any case it makes him, and the team look bad....something like a dictator or tyrant.
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Old 11-01-2009, 12:28 PM   #105
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Re: Here's our chance for Jeff Fisher

Nashville might no longer be big enough for Young and Fisher

Posted by Mike Florio on November 1, 2009 12:19 PM ET
With Titans quarterback Vince Young re-entering the lineup apparently against the wishes of coach Jeff Fisher, Peter King suggested during our Saturday night Notre Dame halftime visit that, in 2010, it's unlikely that both Young and Fisher will be back.

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that other teams could contact Titans owner Bud Adams about possibly taking the final two years of Fisher's contract off Adams' hands.

So if Adams would like to move Fisher, Adams might be able to do so without incurring a buyout.

And possibly by getting a draft pick or two in return.

Meanwhile, FOX's Jay Glazer reports that the locker room isn't pleased with the decision to go to Young, and that Fisher told Kerry Collins "my hands are tied."

One source told Glazer that, when Young is in the game, he'll call a play five to seven times that makes no sense. (Maybe the magic number is, once again, six.)

But while FOX is operating under the clear assumption that Adams told Fisher to go with Young, ESPN's Chris Mortensen disputes that Fisher made the move to placate Adams.

We think Fisher is just trying to save face. Then again, we doubt Mort would accept Fisher's spin at face value. I mean, it's not like Fisher ever hired any members of Mort's immediate family.

Um. Oops.
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