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Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

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Old 10-21-2009, 04:39 PM   #16
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

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Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
Amen.
We went from 5-11 under Spurrier/Snyder and Vinny in 2003 and being the laughing stock of football on the field.
One year later in 2005, Gibbs leads us to 10-6 and the playoffs. That is a short time to turnaround a franchise that was in bad shape.
Gibbs left after the 2007 season of 9-7 and another playoff season, only to one year later under Snyder/Cerratto and Zorn have us 2-4 and we are the laughing stock of the NFL again.
Gibbs made us respectable on the field again. That is all I ask.
I notice you put Snyder besides all the bad things but only Gibbs name by the success and you also left off the two bad Gibbs/Snyder years.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:48 PM   #17
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
I notice you put Snyder besides all the bad things but only Gibbs name by the success and you also left off the two bad Gibbs/Snyder years.
Yes there were two bad years, but he inherited a 5-11 team.
What is your point? That Gibbs is the main person to blame for the current issues on current Redskins team? I did say he was partly to blame.
My point was Gibbs2 brought winning and respectability back to the Redskins. That is all.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:50 PM   #18
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

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Old 10-21-2009, 05:12 PM   #19
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

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Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
Yes there were two bad years, but he inherited a 5-11 team.
What is your point? That Gibbs is the main person to blame for the current issues on current Redskins team? I did say he was partly to blame.
My point was Gibbs2 brought winning and respectability back to the Redskins. That is all.
I should not have made that post because I'm over discussing whats wrong and who is to blame. The only thing we can hope for at this point is that with things hitting rock bottom DS can see whats wrong and start to fix them at the end of the season. Heck, he could show Vinny the door now for what thats worth.
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:18 PM   #20
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
I should not have made that post because I'm over discussing whats wrong and who is to blame. The only thing we can hope for at this point is that with things hitting rock bottom DS can see whats wrong and start to fix them at the end of the season. Heck, he could show Vinny the door now for what thats worth.
If he brings in a good GM now the rest of the season can be used to cut the fat.
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:21 PM   #21
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

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Originally Posted by firstdown View Post
I should not have made that post because I'm over discussing whats wrong and who is to blame. The only thing we can hope for at this point is that with things hitting rock bottom DS can see whats wrong and start to fix them at the end of the season. Heck, he could show Vinny the door now for what thats worth.
You are right, showing Vinny the door now as opposed to the end of the season will not make the team get any worse.
What it might be worth is showing the loyal Redskins fans that Snyder is changing his stubborn ways. To some that is a lot. It might actually help with 2010 season ticket renewals and getting people from chanting sell the team.
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:47 PM   #22
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

Snyder is the one constant who, when he's making decisions, usually isn't doing his due diligence. But it's not all about him, a lot of it is whom he's chosen to hire. He's been surrounded the whole time by a bunch of different people who know the names, but not the backgrounds.

I think Vinny has actually been one of the more competent people making decisions for the Redskins in the past 7 years or so, but he's about the worst possible person to be mediating between the owner and the head coach anyway. In a vacuum, he's a mediocre drafter who is more prudent in free agency than the rest of the people who have been making decisions for the Redskins, but Vinny has never had total autonomy. He's closer to that right now than he's ever been before, but he's a general failure as, "guy-who-is-in-charge-of-most-but-not-all" personnel decisions.

But it hasn't been just those two. It comes back to Snyder, but knowing who is responsible doesn't fix the problem. Gibbs, Saunders, Blache, Spurrier, and even Zorn all got way more say in personnel issues than they should have. Only Gregg Williams consistently helped pluck diamonds-in-the rough off the FA market.

It's worth pointing out that the Dallas Cowboys are a greatly flawed franchise, but there's no question about who is in charge there. They don't always make the best decisions, but they have accountability, which is really the only difference between their FO and ours right now.
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:27 PM   #23
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

Gtripp - thanks for the update. In my opinion even if Vinny is not as responsible as you say he is the only way to truely change the mentality and culture is a wholesale sweeping change from top to bottom. Sydner needs a very strong GM who will not only stand up to him but also have the balls to say things at Redskin Park are not going to be run as usual - we need to change the viewpoint from around the league that the Redskins are a place to come to simply get paid - I am tired of the flashy big free agent signings and the thin depth that occurs as a result. Really we need to sweep out so much of the old, oft injured veterans here and truely commit to starting over - even if it means a couple of years of tough rebuilding. I think it was Tony Dungy that said you can't rebuild only going halfway - you got to do it all the way and that means wholesale turning of the rosters and a commitment to youth. No more firesale trades giving away draft picks for a need because we think we are one player away - we need to start being like the Patriots and trading our players who are approaching 30 to get other teams picks. Now of course with this change in philosphy you need really good scouting and that will of course be part of the change and why Vinny would be shown the door as he is more tuned to free agents over the draft.

By the way you make an excellent point about the Cowboys and ever since Jerry Jones took over and became the GM it has been a long 13 years without a playoff win for them and many more to come until he wises up and does the same thing - so for that matter Jerry please keep up the great job you are doing!

Last edited by Bill B; 10-21-2009 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:09 PM   #24
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
For me it boils down to a lack of a focused, long-term plan for building the team. The team always seems to be in "win now" mode when they're clearly not even close. It's all about knowing who you are, where you want to go, and how you intend on getting there.
Yep, the instant that something goes wrong Snyder and Vinny close in
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:12 PM   #25
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

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Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
Mr. Snyder - A football franchise first goal should always be field a good team and win a super bowl, not sell jersey's. If you have a good team, the jersey will sell themselves.
in business shareholders want it now and they don't want it to stop

it's perfectly ruined a good business world
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:21 PM   #26
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

the buck stops w/ the owner. he'll go out and spend countless millions on free agents but won't do the same for his front office. the only guy that stud up to snyder was joe mendes and he ran him out of the building cause he wasn't on board w/ all the free agent spending.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:25 PM   #27
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill B View Post
Gtripp - thanks for the update. In my opinion even if Vinny is not as responsible as you say he is the only way to truely change the mentality and culture is a wholesale sweeping change from top to bottom. Sydner needs a very strong GM who will not only stand up to him but also have the balls to say things at Redskin Park are not going to be run as usual - we need to change the viewpoint from around the league that the Redskins are a place to come to simply get paid - I am tired of the flashy big free agent signings and the thin depth that occurs as a result. Really we need to sweep out so much of the old, oft injured veterans here and truely commit to starting over - even if it means a couple of years of tough rebuilding. I think it was Tony Dungy that said you can't rebuild only going halfway - you got to do it all the way and that means wholesale turning of the rosters and a commitment to youth. No more firesale trades giving away draft picks for a need because we think we are one player away - we need to start being like the Patriots and trading our players who are approaching 30 to get other teams picks. Now of course with this change in philosphy you need really good scouting and that will of course be part of the change and why Vinny would be shown the door as he is more tuned to free agents over the draft.

By the way you make an excellent point about the Cowboys and ever since Jerry Jones took over and became the GM it has been a long 13 years without a playoff win for them and many more to come until he wises up and does the same thing - so for that matter Jerry please keep up the great job you are doing!
We're not too much better. We've won two playoff games in 15 years? We won't be winning any this year so that makes 16. Like GTripp said AT LEAST Jones puts his name on it. The buck stops w/ him. He doesn't hide behind his puppet and he doesn't hide from the media like a little baby.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:29 PM   #28
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

We have pretty much ignored the Draft the last ten years, esp our offensive line. We have overpaid for talent that has for the most part not panned out.
We have not had a true qb since Rypien.
We have no real front office leadership who believes (or so it seems) it can run a professional organization like a fantasy football team. Until the front office wakes up we will continue to go through this vicious cycle amd we will become the next Detroit Lions or Cincinati Bengals.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:57 PM   #29
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

1999 is to blame, the year Danny bought the team. He is DARTH SNYDER!
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:53 AM   #30
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Re: Where Do You Place the Blame for our Personnel Woes? (Reference to Sally Jenkin's Latest)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
Amen.
We went from 5-11 under Spurrier/Snyder and Vinny in 2003 and being the laughing stock of football on the field.
One year later in 2005, Gibbs leads us to 10-6 and the playoffs. That is a short time to turnaround a franchise that was in bad shape.
Gibbs left after the 2007 season of 9-7 and another playoff season, only to one year later under Snyder/Cerratto and Zorn have us 2-4 and we are the laughing stock of the NFL again.
Gibbs made us respectable on the field again. That is all I ask.
Don't let Gibbs completely off the hook. He traded a 3 and a 4 for B. Lloyd, and another 3 and a 4 for Duckett. That is essentially 4 wasted draft picks that could have been used for O-line depth. Also recall that Archuletta was signed under Gibbs' watch - perhaps THE WORST FA signing in the history of the franchise.
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