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Vinny covering his ass

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Old 10-28-2009, 10:48 AM   #46
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

By the way, Ports has the same amount of carries as Brandon Jacobs. Averaging more yards per carry with 1 touchdown and Jacobs has 2 touchdowns. What the giants have is a viable 2nd RB. We got Betts who sucks. I said that 3 years ago. What logic puts Betts in the game on 3rd downs, the most critical of downs? Stupid stupid stupid. Run Rock more in the meantime. I am seeing a 5-5 record at week ten. Keep fumble fingers on the bench.
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:49 AM   #47
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

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Anyone that puts Mike Williams in the same statement that he thought we had a playoff roster should be immediately stoned and fired. If that is fixing depth, well, there is no surprise to the depths this franchise finds itself.
He basically said, "We found bodies to fill holes, that should work on the O-Line."
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:53 AM   #48
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

Well, we had 3 2nd rounders in the 2008 draft and drafted not 1 OL. I did hear alot of posts about not using one of those on an OL.

I was thinking at the time that Kelly, Thomas, and Davis must be really good for us not to draft an offensive lineman w/ one of those picks.
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:53 AM   #49
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

One more point for Portis. He told us all out O-line sucks last year. Everyone says he is a hot dog for that. Now everyone is repeating what the said. Can I get a Portis was right. Our o-line sucks? No, all i hear is start Pineapple Jesus.
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:22 AM   #50
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

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Well, we had 3 2nd rounders in the 2008 draft and drafted not 1 OL. I did hear alot of posts about not using one of those on an OL.

I was thinking at the time that Kelly, Thomas, and Davis must be really good for us not to draft an offensive lineman w/ one of those picks.

Once again Zorn's fault. He whined about haivng BIG recievers. He imagined Jerry Rice for his system LOL!!!!. Passed up Desean Jackson because he wasn't tall enough. Vinny can't get the blame for this. That has a Zorny smell to it.
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:25 AM   #51
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

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Once again Zorn's fault. He whined about haivng BIG recievers. He imagined Jerry Rice for his system LOL!!!!. Passed up Desean Jackson because he wasn't tall enough. Vinny can't get the blame for this. That has a Zorny smell to it.
I have never heard Zorn was at fault for the 3 receivers. I am pretty sure it was a Cerrato deal, maybe trying to get Zorn what he wanted, but that's when a GM steps up and says, wait, this is what you need. I certainly think a 2nd round OL from that draft would have been a good move, and a lot of the fan unrest now would be milder. Heck maybe we even would have beaten another 0fer team. Nah probably not...
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:35 AM   #52
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

We need O-linemen, I agree, but I like how now we have a great D-line. At one point we didn't have an O-line or a D-line. Yall remember that? I see his approach 2 WRs and TE to fix the big receiver issue. 2 D-linemen in draft and Haynesworth, now D-line fixed. Now we have receivers and got D-linemen. I think next off season we fix the O-line. 5-5 after 10 games. My prediction. Trade Cooley, no longer needed. Get a 3rd rounder for him. No one is giving a 2nd rounder for an Internet exhibitionist (talk about character issues, sheesh).
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:42 AM   #53
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

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1. Draft picks are not guarantees.
Last year everyone on this board were crying because we couldn't rush the passer. Getting a pass rush for the D was priority one, an this was a UN resolution.

2. The fact is, Gibbs left Zorn a playoff team. Obviously Zorn is incapable of even impersonating an NFL offensive coordinator. Look, when it looks like the entire roster needs to be blown up and all players are suddenly horrible (including the 4 Pro Bowl offensive players), that points to Zorn, point blank period.

3. We have a nice nucleus of young players. I like the 2nd year WRs and Davis. Actually Davis may turn out to be better than Cooley. I would like to start that argument now. The offense is better off with Davis in the line up than with Cooley in the line up. I say trade Cooley for a tight end who can block. That would make more sense than trading a 1500 yard a year RB. Who would yall rather have then Portis: Forte or Turner? (one hit wonders). We need a young RB to go along with Portis to phase in as Portis phases out.

4. We need offensive line help, but one off season should be enough. We need a Center, a Guard, and a Tackle. Every freaking lineman does not have to be a Pro Bowler. No one spends 1st round picks on Centers or Guards. Maybe spend it on a Tackle, but i would rather spend that pick on a young stud to complement Portis.

5. Monday night NFL bloopers film. I had to laugh. Zorn's team is in disarray. He does not know what he is doing. The snap on 4th an goal and all the penalties point to coaching once again. We need to hire a head coach and let him pick his assistants.
So many things wrong with this... where to begin?

1.) Since nothing is ever guaranteed (in football or anywhere else), we need to look at probabilities. The odds that a 1st to 3rd round draft pick will *at least* become a 10 year backup are pretty good. 10 year backups are highly valuable, IMO. I'm not sure why you made the point of draft picks not being guaranteed. Are you trying to defend our neglect to the draft?

2.) Why did we go 6-2 at the beginning of last season? I guess that was in spite of Zorn? I'm not sold on Zorn at all, but everything is not his fault as you make it seem. We have no depth, and when we didn't need it (i.e.: beginning of last year), we did fine. Now we have key injuries and our depth problem is exposed. You can't blame Zorn for that.

3.) The offense is better with Davis than Cooley? WTF? Cooley is a top 5 tight end (maybe top 3) in the league. Davis hasn't done squat.

4.) I'd say we have 3 or 4 linemen worth keeping: Dockery, Rabach and Heyer. However, they should be our backups IMO. Heyer is crap, but he's versatile and kind of a project. I'd be comfortable if Dockery or Rabach had to come in due to injury. Hell, I'd be comfortable if they had to start, but not with the other guys we have now. That leaves us with a need for 7 - 9 more offensive linemen. That surely can't be easily fixed in one offseason. Drafting a RB with our 1st would be a waste, because we can't run block. I don't have the stats, but I'm pretty sure guards have been taken in the first round before -- probably centers too. Don't put the cart ahead of horse.

5.) How in the world does the fumbled snap on 4th and goal fall on Zorn? Ridiculous.

I don't really think the team needs to be blown up, but our offensive line definitely does -- and, it is pretty much the reason for all of our problems on offense.
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:48 AM   #54
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

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By the way, Ports has the same amount of carries as Brandon Jacobs. Averaging more yards per carry with 1 touchdown and Jacobs has 2 touchdowns. What the giants have is a viable 2nd RB. We got Betts who sucks. I said that 3 years ago. What logic puts Betts in the game on 3rd downs, the most critical of downs? Stupid stupid stupid. Run Rock more in the meantime. I am seeing a 5-5 record at week ten. Keep fumble fingers on the bench.
The logic is, although Betts is not the best runner he is better then Portis at catching passes. Before you go off on a tangent.....I'm not a Betts supporter nor a Cartwright supporter. I think they should have been cut or traded a long time ago. Youth brought in and developed. ....but.....we keep hearing from coach after coach that Betts is something wonderful and can catch passes better then Portis. So logically if you are sitting at 3rd and long most likely there will be play action with possibly a pass to a RB out of the back field. Just to have another weapon. Portis has gotten better in this catagory but for what ever reason every coach has seen something us fans don't. Which is why he's still on the team and being used as a pass catching RB. However if all they did was pass to him then other teams would key on that and back up ever time he's in the game. So the Skins change it up once and a while.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:01 PM   #55
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

Ghetto Dog -
1. 10 year backups. Name one for me please? A back up should be a potential up an coming starter or a former starter who has lost a step. you want young up and comers and veteran guidance, and a mix there of. 10 year back ups don't exist.
2. 6-2 Gibbs, Zorn did not have to earn his pay then. He didn't change anything at that point. No injuries yet, but when he had to change things and be a coach he flopped and looked lost. By the way he still lost. Zorn inherited a playoff team.

3. I said that about Cooley to make a point. Everyone wants to trade away all Pro Bowl players except Cooley. WTF?

4. The Carolina Panthers fixed there O-line in one offseason do the research. We can use the draft and FAs. Do what needs to be done. Use the same technique we used to fix the D-line.

5. The fumble, the penalties, and all the Bad News Bears like foul ups shows coaching issues. I have heard it time and time again. That is coaching. A player's lack of ability does not make them make that blooper. Confusion causes that play. That shows the lack of perparedness more than anything. That is Zorn's fault.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:13 PM   #56
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

SBXVII-

Gibbs didn't do that. The only Redskin coaches Portis has played for are Gibbs and Zorn. Portis can catch, he just stays in to block sometimes. Common sense. Betts looks stupid most of the time. It's worth the threat we might run by having Portis on the field. Betts only gets at the most 2 catches a game, and those are the games he catches a pass at all. 2 catches, Not worth the fumbling risk. Poor risk management by Zorn.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:22 PM   #57
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

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The logic is, although Betts is not the best runner he is better then Portis at catching passes. Before you go off on a tangent.....I'm not a Betts supporter nor a Cartwright supporter. I think they should have been cut or traded a long time ago. Youth brought in and developed. ....but.....we keep hearing from coach after coach that Betts is something wonderful and can catch passes better then Portis. So logically if you are sitting at 3rd and long most likely there will be play action with possibly a pass to a RB out of the back field. Just to have another weapon. Portis has gotten better in this catagory but for what ever reason every coach has seen something us fans don't. Which is why he's still on the team and being used as a pass catching RB. However if all they did was pass to him then other teams would key on that and back up ever time he's in the game. So the Skins change it up once and a while.
Fwiw Betts is actually having a great receiving season for a back. But that hardly matters when he is missing blocks that lead to sacks.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:33 PM   #58
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SBXVII Play action on 3rd and long when you know the blitz coming? Are you sure you're not Zorn or Sherm Lewis in disguise? Can't even do that on Madden.
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:48 PM   #59
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Re: Vinny covering his ass

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Ghetto Dog -
1. 10 year backups. Name one for me please? A back up should be a potential up an coming starter or a former starter who has lost a step. you want young up and comers and veteran guidance, and a mix there of. 10 year back ups don't exist.
Todd Collins -- never a star, never a starter, always a backup (and a good one, IMO). I'm sure there are hundreds of names out there, I just don't know them because I'm not that in touch with backups on any team other than the Redskins. Of course, recently we haven't had many backups worthy of riding the pine for 10 years. To say that there's no such thing as a career backup is just plain wrong, but I don't really think you mean that (but you said it).

I agree, a backup should be a, "potential up and coming star." Players drafted in the first three rounds usually become starters, but the odds are real good that if they don't become starters they will *at least* be a good backup for a long time. It seems you think my argument was that we should be drafting backups, when instead it was that drafting gives you the best odds of building a good team -- starters, depth, everything. It doesn't matter if the draft is not a "guarantee" -- nothing is. However, the draft gives a team the best odds for building a good team, and therefore the best odds of winning. Draft neglect cannot be justified whatsoever, IMO.

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2. 6-2 Gibbs, Zorn did not have to earn his pay then. He didn't change anything at that point. No injuries yet, but when he had to change things and be a coach he flopped and looked lost. By the way he still lost. Zorn inherited a playoff team.
Okay. Zorn was calling the plays when we went 6-2, but I guess you think he's a good play caller, and his shortcomings lie in practice and discipline. I guess you think he didn't have to, "change things and be a coach," until week 9. In any case, the fumble on 4th and goal can't be Zorn's fault unless they don't practice snaps. Zorn is no head coach -- that's obvious -- but, you can't blame him for everything.

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3. I said that about Cooley to make a point. Everyone wants to trade away all Pro Bowl players except Cooley. WTF?
Okay. As long as you don't think we're better off with Davis than Cooley, then we're in agreement. I don't think we need to rebuild, but I wouldn't be against it either -- we're a very old team. However, we absolutely must rebuild the OL.

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4. The Carolina Panthers fixed there O-line in one offseason do the research. We can use the draft and FAs. Do what needs to be done. Use the same technique we used to fix the D-line.
I don't know anything about the state of the Panther's OL before they "fixed" it, and I don't really care because we are not them. With Samuels and Thomas gone, we don't really have any guys worthy of starting, and only a few worthy of backing up. So, we basically have nothing, which means we need about 5 starting quality guys and 2-4 quality backups. I guess it could be done in one offseason, but it's not likely at all.

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5. The fumble, the penalties, and all the Bad News Bears like foul ups shows coaching issues. I have heard it time and time again. That is coaching. A player's lack of ability does not make them make that blooper. Confusion causes that play. That shows the lack of perparedness more than anything. That is Zorn's fault.
If the players aren't prepared, that is Zorn's fault -- no question. Penalties are from lack of discipline, which comes from the coach -- but, the fumble? That's crazy. I couldn't even tell what happened, but it looked like the fumble was a couple yards off center -- that's all on Rabach. The other fumbled snap was a little low, but JC got his hands on it -- that one was on JC. I agree, Zorn's to blame for some things, but not everything.
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