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Our next coach??

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Old 11-19-2009, 08:40 AM   #91
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Re: Our next coach??

I can't see anyone here "falling in love" with VC, Zorn is slightly different, in that if he can bring a team back, accept losing playcalling responsibilities, and demonstrate he has learned the hard lessons from the last 18 games, then maybe he could come back, with some staff changes including a permanent solution at playcalling (not Sherm Lewis, as much as I love the move, or Sherm Smith, who could be fired now as far as I am concerned). Bottomline is still, DS needs to bring in a GM, let him do his work, keep his nose out, and then where ever the chips fall for Zorn so be it.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:05 AM   #92
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Re: Our next coach??

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
I don't think anybody is loving Zorn or Vinny after one win... but it's worth asking what do you do if the team looks good down the stretch?? Do you just ignore that and base your offseason decisions on the first 8 games only?
16 games actually, Yes. I know I sound retarded. If the team started winning (which I doubt will happen) and we end what? What is the magic number that would keep the team intact next year? 8-8, 9-7, 10-6 or better? I would think that if the team did go on a winning streak then it would have to be better then last yr. Would 9-7 do the job for DS? Then you have to think about who was the master mind behind the winning? Did Zorn actually figure out the problem or was it Lewis? Do we keep one man to simply stand on the sideline and wear a head set to repeat the plays called to the QB with no authority as a HC? or could we just name Lewis the HC if he's the master mind behind all this.

I'll throw one idea at you though. Many experts have said it takes atleast 3 yrs for a team to actually start showing improvement after picking up a new HC and changing it's scheme. I presume part of this issue is the HC getting the players he needs to run his scheme. Do we wait one more year?

I have issues with VC cause he has not built a team with long term goals. It's a win now mentality. We are reaping what we have sewn right now with the old age players getting hurt and no replacements that are qualified. He picked his talent scouts who personally I think are not all that great either that or VC doesn't listen to them and goes out on a limb for whoever he and DS wants.

I had high hopes Zorn would come into this league and light it up with his "high powered offense" but it has been a dud since mid season of last year...16 games. No fixy. To me thats HCing and VC for not fixing the problems. The team has to go outside to locate a consultant to figure out what the problem is and since then the team has progressively gotten better. Somewhat. Maybe it's just the play calling but I could swear I'm seeing plays that Zorn has not run prior to Lewis's arrival, plus a change of personel on the field. Most of the personel issue is due to injuries but it's funny the #2's on this team are getting the job done.

Maybe decisions need to be made by DS, does he have the money to fire all the coaches and the older players with their big contracts and bring in and pay new coach's and younger players or will he have to make a decision about which is more important right now. Fire the coaching staff and bring in a new coaching staff and again slowly purge the older vets off this roster, or keep the coaching staff if they go 9-7 and unload all the big contracts with no CAP?
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:17 AM   #93
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Re: Our next coach??

I doubt the team pulls off any major winning streak down the stretch too... and I don't think there's a magic number of wins the team has to get to. I just think you have to look at the season as a whole, and determine if there were sure signs of improvement as the year went on, and if it's something that deserves to keep building on.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:03 AM   #94
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Re: Our next coach??

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I don't think anybody is loving Zorn or Vinny after one win... but it's worth asking what do you do if the team looks good down the stretch?? Do you just ignore that and base your offseason decisions on the first 8 games only?
The best this team can hope for right now is 10-6. Now, we all know thats not going to happen, but even if it did, head coaches have been fired with better records than that. Unless this team somehow makes the playoffs and we get multiple wins in the playoffs, Zorn's gone. Even if we somehow got to 8-8 or 9-7, the team's been far too inconsistent under Zorn. Further, if the team did turn the season around, it wouldn't appear to be due Zorn or anything he's done. The second Lewis was hired, any credit for improvement would go to him, and by extension, Cerrato for making the decision to bring him in. In the end, the only thing a miraculous turnaround will do is give Snyder an excuse to keep Cerrato around. Zorn's chances of being with this team beyond January 4th, 2010 are close to zero.

And, if you agree with this line of reasoning, he could be gone in about 10 days...
Bills' head start could force Snyder's hand | ProFootballTalk.com
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:05 AM   #95
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Re: Our next coach??

Unless the team just completely falls apart these next few weeks I don't think Snyder will fire Zorn during the season.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:26 AM   #96
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Re: Our next coach??

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Unless the team just completely falls apart these next few weeks I don't think Snyder will fire Zorn during the season.
I honestly don't either, unless the cowgirls continue their downward spiral and jones gets ancy and fires the pillsbury doughboy midseason. However, that (the firing) doesnt seem likely. If snyders goal is to get Shanahan, his best hope is for the girls to make the playoffs, so he can get a head-start on wooing Shanahan (over Jones) and offer him:

1. full control over football operations (whether he exercises that control by making himself defacto GM or whether he selects his own personnel guy would be Shanahan's choice, not Snyders);
2. something in the 9-10MM neighborhood for a minimum of 5 years with a contract that ensures Snyder will stay out of things or Shanahan gets to walk and take ALL his money with him; and
3. This is key - agree to make his son Kyle one of the highest-paid coordinators in the NFL.

Shahanan wouldn't get a better offer anywhere else, so there'd be no reason for him to wait to see what Jones does with Phillips after the playoffs.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:14 PM   #97
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Re: Our next coach??

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I can't see anyone here "falling in love" with VC, Zorn is slightly different, in that if he can bring a team back, accept losing playcalling responsibilities, and demonstrate he has learned the hard lessons from the last 18 games, then maybe he could come back, with some staff changes including a permanent solution at playcalling (not Sherm Lewis, as much as I love the move, or Sherm Smith, who could be fired now as far as I am concerned). Bottomline is still, DS needs to bring in a GM, let him do his work, keep his nose out, and then where ever the chips fall for Zorn so be it.
i only faulted zorn at first then i started to feel for the guy, i mean he was brought in here with no experience to be an oc then he was bumped to hc cause danny and vinny couldn't find anyone else

as far as playcalling, does anyone really give s lewis all the credit of the o production? i really think he didn't do that much everything was basically the same for the first few games then portis got hurt and the o turned on, i love portis but i really think it was him holding us back

and i agree with matty, at this point unless we get shut out by dallas and then shut out by philly then i don't see zorn leaving before the seasons end

as for our next coach i still have no front runner evetyone thinnks shannahan but there's so many openings he will end up some where w.o the headache in the fo
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:35 PM   #98
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Re: Our next coach??

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i only faulted zorn at first then i started to feel for the guy, i mean he was brought in here with no experience to be an oc then he was bumped to hc cause danny and vinny couldn't find anyone else

as far as playcalling, does anyone really give s lewis all the credit of the o production? i really think he didn't do that much everything was basically the same for the first few games then portis got hurt and the o turned on, i love portis but i really think it was him holding us back

and i agree with matty, at this point unless we get shut out by dallas and then shut out by philly then i don't see zorn leaving before the seasons end

as for our next coach i still have no front runner evetyone thinnks shannahan but there's so many openings he will end up some where w.o the headache in the fo
Let's see, in the redzone, our production has clearly increased, we have passed more effectively, brought in more youth (mitchell one game, others have been used far more). I think our play calling has been dramatically improved by Lewis' performance. Zorn always tried for the perfect play, and therefore never thought multiple plays ahead(in my opinion), now we see our offense flowing more smoothly even with a more complex system of getting the call to him.

Also, in the last 3 games, against top 10 defenses, we have scored 17 17 and 24 with Lewis calling the offense, how did we do with Zorn, against what kind of defenses?
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:54 PM   #99
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Re: Our next coach??

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Let's see, in the redzone, our production has clearly increased, we have passed more effectively, brought in more youth (mitchell one game, others have been used far more). I think our play calling has been dramatically improved by Lewis' performance. Zorn always tried for the perfect play, and therefore never thought multiple plays ahead(in my opinion), now we see our offense flowing more smoothly even with a more complex system of getting the call to him.

Also, in the last 3 games, against top 10 defenses, we have scored 17 17 and 24 with Lewis calling the offense, how did we do with Zorn, against what kind of defenses?
two games turst me i'm watching him like a hawk

and i'm not saying we haven't improved we obviously have, and while sherm might be part of the reason, did it not look lik ewe really started to click in the second half of the atlanta game when portis got hurt?

btw nflnetwrok just said he is out for sunday
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:02 PM   #100
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Re: Our next coach??

And I am not saying that Betts for Portis, or LJones in Denver haven't also impacted it, but I can not find it in me to believe that we would have scored over 10 points in any of those 3 games if Zorn was calling the plays. The only game we had 17 with Zorn this year was the Giants(from memory) and even it that one, we would have stalled in the red zone if we hadn't done the trick play (WHICH I fully credit Zorn with in both cases. This is where he can do good, knowing when to be aggressive with the tricks and 4th down, and when to live for another day)

I think the refreshing attitude the "2nd stringers" have brought has also been a key to our success. Maybe Portis, Cooley, and Moss all believed the hype to the detriment of the team.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:07 PM   #101
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Re: Our next coach??

do you not think that he has certain people telling him that he needs to have the big names in though? because with marko's size and production in the preseason can you honestly see ANY team in the nfl not giving him a shot before the 9th week?

and that 17 againgts the giants was trash points at the end anyway, but we had 17 against the panters philly and atl
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:09 PM   #102
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Re: Our next coach??

this damn wireless keyboard does not help my bad spelling either
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:00 PM   #103
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Re: Our next coach??

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do you not think that he has certain people telling him that he needs to have the big names in though? because with marko's size and production in the preseason can you honestly see ANY team in the nfl not giving him a shot before the 9th week?

and that 17 againgts the giants was trash points at the end anyway, but we had 17 against the panters philly and atl
I don't really understand your point. My point is our offense has looked substantially more dynamic, again IMO, since Lewis started calling. It's not the plays themselves, but the use of them. I know when Zorn was calling plays full time, I could predict fairly close what our play was, and I am no where near the caliber of the DCoordinators in the NFL. And the 17 points against philly and atl, were under lewis, and against real defenses.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:14 PM   #104
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Re: Our next coach??

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I don't really understand your point. My point is our offense has looked substantially more dynamic, again IMO, since Lewis started calling. It's not the plays themselves, but the use of them. I know when Zorn was calling plays full time, I could predict fairly close what our play was, and I am no where near the caliber of the DCoordinators in the NFL. And the 17 points against philly and atl, were under lewis, and against real defenses.
i just think zorn is on a leash and told what he is allowed to do, i think that any coach wanting to "find a spark" would try a seemingly amazing talent in mithcell

and as far as the play calling i honestly haven't seen anything that drastic, i guess you are refering to the times in which plays are called, i just feel that are o was the same with minor changes if the first few games with sherm, but once cp went out we started to light it up.

i guess my point would be that sherm has helped out a little bit, but portis getting a concusion actually helped us out more, as weird as that may seem, just because portis has been playing hurt all year and no one could actually stop him from sutiing up and playing, until he got the concussion

betts has been PRACTICING with first team and has a rythm with them which goes a long way
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:21 PM   #105
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Re: Our next coach??

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I don't really understand your point. My point is our offense has looked substantially more dynamic, again IMO, since Lewis started calling. It's not the plays themselves, but the use of them. I know when Zorn was calling plays full time, I could predict fairly close what our play was, and I am no where near the caliber of the DCoordinators in the NFL. And the 17 points against philly and atl, were under lewis, and against real defenses.
I heard somewhere a while back that Zorn complained about not being able to get to his fiftenth play until late in the third qtr. He expressed that to the media or something with that said, he pretty much is calling a handfull of plays repeatedly without even adjusting to the defense. So the reason our offense had been so weak was that he was calling plays over and over again that where not having an effect. For instance earlier in the year on those goal line plays he ran to the left and were stuffed he just never adjusted to the personnel or anything.

He is not a coach look at ARE, still back there letting the ball bounce back for like 20 yds in a critical part of the game.
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