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Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

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Old 11-09-2009, 11:30 PM   #31
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

One Question ... who the hell is Vinny .. i mean really, what has this guy EVER to deserve this job .. we are border line Matt Millen terrority with this guy .. good bye VC good bye you little weasel
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:04 AM   #32
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

I've come around to be in the fire vinny camp recently, though I don't think he can be blamed for most of the dysfunction. As Wilbon has said, if they'd listened to vinny a few times they might be in better shape.

I'm more of the opinion that vinny's relationship w/the danny is one that can't be conducive to an objective mgmt. structure. It seems by all accounts that they are too close for Vinny to actually 'run' the team as GM. Were the wr picks in 08 all his doing? Maybe the specific players were, but JLC made a good point that Snyder has for years been enammored w/ WRs. He even wanted marty to draft Moss rather than R. Gardner in 01.

In short, if Snyder is willing to give real control of the football operation to a gm, he's got to fire Vinny, even if vinny isn't really to blame for much of the current mess (though I know that's debatable).
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:08 AM   #33
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
I really, really, really, don't get DS's infatuation with Vinny. ...............................
Any way, if someone has a serious answer - I'd love to hear it.

maybe they gay yo.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:09 AM   #34
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

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I've come around to be in the fire vinny camp recently, though I don't think he can be blamed for most of the dysfunction. As Wilbon has said, if they'd listened to vinny a few times they might be in better shape.

I'm more of the opinion that vinny's relationship w/the danny is one that can't be conducive to an objective mgmt. structure. It seems by all accounts that they are too close for Vinny to actually 'run' the team as GM. Were the wr picks in 08 all his doing? Maybe the specific players were, but JLC made a good point that Snyder has for years been enammored w/ WRs. He even wanted marty to draft Moss rather than R. Gardner in 01.

In short, if Snyder is willing to give real control of the football operation to a gm, he's got to fire Vinny, even if vinny isn't really to blame for much of the current mess (though I know that's debatable).
I think it has been Vinny's call the past two years and all signs point to that (minus the QB pursuit in the offseason). Since you really can't change owners, then the next logical thing would be for Vinny to go.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:27 AM   #35
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

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I think it has been Vinny's call the past two years and all signs point to that (minus the QB pursuit in the offseason). Since you really can't change owners, then the next logical thing would be for Vinny to go.
Agreed on that.

On paper it's suppossedly been vinny's call, it's just about impossible for us to know how much influence Snyder has had on his decisions. If it's true that they are friends, or at least racquetball partners, then I don't see how they could not discuss draft strategy & personell a lot.

In fairness to Vinny his drafting the last 2 years might turn out to be alright. The jury is still out on Davis, Kelly & Thomas, but you need 3 years to really assess those guys. If they turn out to be decent, I think you can say vinny's draft record the last 2 years is at least avg. He did get Horton & Mitchell in the 7th, though his one o line pick, Rinehart, is not looking too good. I know the o line wasn't addressed nearly enough, but at the same time this team had several holes to fill when he took over in 08.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:36 AM   #36
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

The clock is ticking......(tick, tick, tick). The count down has started.....8 games down 8 to go. tick, tick, tick.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:40 AM   #37
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

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Agreed on that.

On paper it's suppossedly been vinny's call, it's just about impossible for us to know how much influence Snyder has had on his decisions. If it's true that they are friends, or at least racquetball partners, then I don't see how they could not discuss draft strategy & personell a lot.

In fairness to Vinny his drafting the last 2 years might turn out to be alright. The jury is still out on Davis, Kelly & Thomas, but you need 3 years to really assess those guys. If they turn out to be decent, I think you can say vinny's draft record the last 2 years is at least avg. He did get Horton & Mitchell in the 7th, though his one o line pick, Rinehart, is not looking too good. I know the o line wasn't addressed nearly enough, but at the same time this team had several holes to fill when he took over in 08.
I think some of the folks that have better access to information than your average fan (i.e. Smootsmack) have said that it has been pretty much Vinny's call on a lot of things, except for salary negotiation. While I do think that Vinny has made some pretty good draft picks (i.e. Orakpo, Horton, Mitchell, etc., etc.) he has completely overlooked the the offensive line. I mean he has built the defensive line (Orakpo, Jarmon, AH), but he should've had a similar approach to the o-line.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:03 AM   #38
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

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I think some of the folks that have better access to information than your average fan (i.e. Smootsmack) have said that it has been pretty much Vinny's call on a lot of things, except for salary negotiation. While I do think that Vinny has made some pretty good draft picks (i.e. Orakpo, Horton, Mitchell, etc., etc.) he has completely overlooked the the offensive line. I mean he has built the defensive line (Orakpo, Jarmon, AH), but he should've had a similar approach to the o-line.
Yeah, taking Thomas, Kelly and Davis when we only needed 1 WR was a kick in the nuts. He could have taken Thomas and 2 linemen (Marko in the later rounds was a steal). WRs can be found at every turn. Look at Chris Chambers. He's signed by the Chefs and suits up a few days later and has 70 yards and 2 TDs.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:55 PM   #39
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

If - - I said IF - - Vinny has to take a fall for the disastrous 2009 season, I suspect he will be given another "title" in the Danny Snyder Cosmos of Companies AND that he will have a radio show 5 days a week on ESPN 980 in Washington.

For those of you who do not live in the area and cannot hear that program - - count yourselves as most fortunate. In terms of being a good radio program host, Vinny makes a great bartender. Listening to his show makes your ears bleed.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:11 PM   #40
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

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If - - I said IF - - Vinny has to take a fall for the disastrous 2009 season, I suspect he will be given another "title" in the Danny Snyder Cosmos of Companies AND that he will have a radio show 5 days a week on ESPN 980 in Washington.

For those of you who do not live in the area and cannot hear that program - - count yourselves as most fortunate. In terms of being a good radio program host, Vinny makes a great bartender. Listening to his show makes your ears bleed.
Better to have Vinny on a radio show that we can ignore than to have him in the front office.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:53 PM   #41
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

If Snyder is smart he'll make sure Vinny is out of the public eye altogether, and behind the scenes he needs to be completely out of the picture when it comes to personnel decisions. Otherwise it's mission = fail and there will always be the perception, real or not, that Vinny is still involved.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:54 PM   #42
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

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Yeah, taking Thomas, Kelly and Davis when we only needed 1 WR was a kick in the nuts. He could have taken Thomas and 2 linemen (Marko in the later rounds was a steal). WRs can be found at every turn. Look at Chris Chambers. He's signed by the Chefs and suits up a few days later and has 70 yards and 2 TDs.
Actually looking back the only lineman that would have been worth one of our second round picks was Chilo Rachel and he was selected near the top of the second. However had we drafted Calias Campbell we wouldn't have needed to ship a second round pick for Jason Taylor, and we wouldn't had to use a 3rd round pick on Jeremy Jarmon. I still would have taken Orakpo over Oher though. We could then have used a 2009 second round pick to select an offensive lineman and that 2010 3rd round pick could have been used on another interior guy.

Going back to 2008 though I think that Jeremy Zutah was the only other guy who was worthy of a 2nd round pick.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:21 PM   #43
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

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I think some of the folks that have better access to information than your average fan (i.e. Smootsmack) have said that it has been pretty much Vinny's call on a lot of things, except for salary negotiation. While I do think that Vinny has made some pretty good draft picks (i.e. Orakpo, Horton, Mitchell, etc., etc.) he has completely overlooked the the offensive line. I mean he has built the defensive line (Orakpo, Jarmon, AH), but he should've had a similar approach to the o-line.
I never liked that all 3 2nd rounders in 08 were pass catchers, but I did understand Vinny's explanation. He didn't like the o linemen that were available after they'd traded down (ironic that Atl. traded up w/us to get a LT). What I really didn't like was that in the late rounds there were no O linemen selected the last 2 years.

Still, Vinny had an approach for the o line, it relied on Dock and signing Ray Willis. Only one of those happened. By the way his drafts have gone it looks as if he tries to draft by position in blocks, e.g. 2 wrs, 2 LBs. Maybe it was (is) in his 3 year plan to address the o line in this year's draft.

I'm not so much for getting rid of vinny because of his draft picks (though there's plenty to not like there) as much as I am for starting on a clean slate w/a new gm & structure to let him work.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:27 PM   #44
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

Bottom line is Vinny did not address our DL line a few years ago and did this year by drafting Orakpo and getting Jeremy Jarmon. He didn't address the OL line this year and provided rejects and FA as backups, Vinny seems to be running behind on his moves and not anticipating ahead. Vinny gots to go!!!
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:51 PM   #45
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Re: Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

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Bottom line is Vinny did not address our DL line a few years ago and did this year by drafting Orakpo and getting Jeremy Jarmon. He didn't address the OL line this year and provided rejects and FA as backups, Vinny seems to be running behind on his moves and not anticipating ahead. Vinny gots to go!!!
Vinny is a symptom of the problem, but he's also about two ranks higher up the football operations food chain than he'd be if he were in a successful organization.

Vinny is a lot more knowledgeable than people give him credit for, but the Steelers and Colts have five or six Vinny Cerrato's, and it's likely that none of them are quite as much of a prick.
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