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Old 11-10-2009, 12:23 PM   #16
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Re: Campbell Comparables

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Dont need to be in a huddle to see. I see it in interviews, his demeanor on the field, and most important in the win-loss column.

Im not attacking his character, his seems to be a fine likeable person. Hell, I wanted him to succeed. Thats not the issue. Im thinking of the body of work and his ability to carry a team to a win, ability to lead a team a tough patch in a season, and make people around him better. You either got it or you dont. I dont think he has it.

I pretty sure the FO is convinced and will being persuing other options in the offseason like they did last offseason, so we are really debating nothing at this point.
I think the implied assumption here is that you have to be as smart as you to be able to read between the lines like this, and all of us mindless drones that look at numbers just can't see what you can.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:23 PM   #17
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Re: Campbell Comparables

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I just assumed he was in the huddle. He sounded confident.
Im confident he wont be around next season. Best of luck to JC, would like to see him win somewhere else in a stable, well run organization. He has worked too hard.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:28 PM   #18
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Re: Campbell Comparables

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
I think the implied assumption here is that you have to be as smart as you to be able to read between the lines like this, and all of us mindless drones that look at numbers just can't see what you can.
Not really, i love the stats but just looking past that right now. He stats are what they are...not that great. Mindless drones?...Never
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:30 PM   #19
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Re: Campbell Comparables

Campbell is going to get the hell out of this schizophrenic and disjointed club, move on to a more disciplined and organized franchise, and prove to be a more than decent QB. The 'Skins have probably ruined him from ever reaching true elite status, but he is going to shine somewhere else that isn't the goddamn freak show we've been the past two seasons.

He'll join a host of other players that we let go of and who shined once they got the hell out of here.

I'm fairly certain of that based on nothing but my gut.

And if I were him, I couldn't get out of this circus fast enough.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:31 PM   #20
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Re: Campbell Comparables

Should'nt this be put into #'s don't lie.
Compare wins and losses. Compare redzone stats. Compare thrird down completion percentages. Look at touchdown numbers. Jason campbell is not a franchise quarterback. Lets start looking at QB prospects in the draft.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:34 PM   #21
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Re: Campbell Comparables

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Dont need to be in a huddle to see. I see it in interviews, his demeanor on the field, and most important in the win-loss column.

Im not attacking his character, his seems to be a fine likeable person. Hell, I wanted him to succeed. Thats not the issue. Im thinking of the body of work and his ability to carry a team to a win, ability to lead a team a tough patch in a season, and make people around him better. You either got it or you dont. I dont think he has it.

I pretty sure the FO is convinced and will being persuing other options in the offseason like they did last offseason, so we are really debating nothing at this point.
Sure you do. Coming to such a damning conclusion, you should have all the details. All of them. Otherwise, it's somewhat baseless.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:37 PM   #22
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Re: Campbell Comparables

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Originally Posted by T.O.Killa View Post
Should'nt this be put into #'s don't lie.
Compare wins and losses. Compare redzone stats. Compare thrird down completion percentages. Look at touchdown numbers. Jason campbell is not a franchise quarterback. Lets start looking at QB prospects in the draft.
Right, because a new QB will play much better behind this line.

IMO, if JC is willing to stay next year, I say keep him. He's certainly serviceable. Build the team around him, but not necessarily in that sense. If he's not the QB to lead the team to a SB, then draft a young guy in subsequent years. I don't think you're going to get anyone better than him in the draft next year, and at the same time you'd be wasting a pick that could get you an above average OL. It just doesn't make any sense to pick a QB next year when you have so many more pressing needs (that directly affect the QB's play!).
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:49 PM   #23
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Re: Campbell Comparables

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Sure you do. Coming to such a damning conclusion, you should have all the details. All of them. Otherwise, it's somewhat baseless.
Gotta disagree. I dont have all the details, hell nobody that post here does. Im just telling you how I see it, the body of work, watching him navigate through the ups and downs of the season and how he responds. He is not a rookie, he has been here awhile. In terms of baseless, then go to the stats...like I said prior, there not great.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:54 PM   #24
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Re: Campbell Comparables

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Gotta disagree. I dont have all the details, hell nobody that post here does. Im just telling you how I see it, the body of work, watching him navigate through the ups and downs of the season and how he responds. He is not a rookie, he has been here awhile. In terms of baseless, then go to the stats...like I said prior, there not great.
But you're not seeing all of it, as you said.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:16 PM   #25
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Re: Campbell Comparables

jc stats are very deceiving he makes the completions, but he throws to the check down reciever. the easy completion. Never the long ball or the big threat play.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:28 PM   #26
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Re: Campbell Comparables

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
Decided to start a new Campbell thread since the OP in the "Campbell's numbers don't lie" thread is now 6 weeks old, and no one is going to read through 1,000 posts.

Bill Barnwell at FO provides us this PFR query for Jason Campbell's season, based on the explosion of his sack rate. He compares Campbell's numbers to the 17 closest seasons in the last thirty years.

The link is here:

Player Season Finder Query Results | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Barnwell's analysis is here:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Jason Campbell's Sack Rate

The most interesting thing is the two closest seasons to the season Campbell is having now, out of every QB season in the last 30 years, were Ben Roethlisberger's worst two seasons. There's little doubt that Roethlisberger is seeing downfield right now a lot better than Campbell is, but I'm not sure that's always been the case.

Question is, exactly how did the Steelers get that offense to where they are right now? And how can the Redskins prevent this situation from finishing out as bad as it started.
I just hope that we haven't damaged JC and made him permanently gun shy like what happened to Carr.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:36 PM   #27
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Re: Campbell Comparables

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But you're not seeing all of it, as you said.
But what I am seeing is Tony Romo, Big Ben, Kurt Warner, Eli Manning lead teams who dont have the physical abilities JC has. JC has it all the physical tools. Mental side seems to be a different story. Now our line is bad....but not the entire time JC has been here. Even when he get times to throw he check down to fast, miss guys who are open, get happy feet, and get gun shy.
Eli, come on, no physical tools comparison, lead a Giants team to a superbowl win against a better team. IMO biggest superbowl upset all time. Led the team in a game winning drive. Led the team with ex players said he couldnt in the media capital of the world.
Warner washed up vet? Hell no, lead a team with a bad defense and average to bad Oline to the Superbowl. He cant throw the ball like he use to, leadership helped.
Romo, I hate this guy, but he is better than JC. Huge Playmaker, average oline, overrated defense.
Big Ben, Leader to the fullest. Throwing the ball he is kinda weak. Big playmaker, Bad Oline.

Now I dont know all the details, but these guys are better. Just some Campbell Comparables.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:38 PM   #28
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Re: Campbell Comparables

Can we please stop talking about this guy... He won't be here next season so give it up!!
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:42 PM   #29
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Re: Campbell Comparables

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
Decided to start a new Campbell thread since the OP in the "Campbell's numbers don't lie" thread is now 6 weeks old, and no one is going to read through 1,000 posts.

Bill Barnwell at FO provides us this PFR query for Jason Campbell's season, based on the explosion of his sack rate. He compares Campbell's numbers to the 17 closest seasons in the last thirty years.

The link is here:

Player Season Finder Query Results | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Barnwell's analysis is here:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Jason Campbell's Sack Rate

The most interesting thing is the two closest seasons to the season Campbell is having now, out of every QB season in the last 30 years, were Ben Roethlisberger's worst two seasons. There's little doubt that Roethlisberger is seeing downfield right now a lot better than Campbell is, but I'm not sure that's always been the case.

Question is, exactly how did the Steelers get that offense to where they are right now? And how can the Redskins prevent this situation from finishing out as bad as it started.


It's very simple. Ben R. is a better QB. Ben can extend plays and for every bad play he makes, he'll make two that can win the game. JC simply can't do what Ben does. But Ben's also got better wr's and plays in a better system.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:42 PM   #30
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Re: Campbell Comparables

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
But what I am seeing is Tony Romo, Big Ben, Kurt Warner, Eli Manning lead teams who dont have the physical abilities JC has. JC has it all the physical tools. Mental side seems to be a different story. Now our line is bad....but not the entire time JC has been here. Even when he get times to throw he check down to fast, miss guys who are open, get happy feet, and get gun shy.
Eli, come on, no physical tools comparison, lead a Giants team to a superbowl win against a better team. IMO biggest superbowl upset all time. Led the team in a game winning drive. Led the team with ex players said he couldnt in the media capital of the world.
Warner washed up vet? Hell no, lead a team with a bad defense and average to bad Oline to the Superbowl. He cant throw the ball like he use to, leadership helped.
Romo, I hate this guy, but he is better than JC. Huge Playmaker, average oline, overrated defense.
Big Ben, Leader to the fullest. Throwing the ball he is kinda weak. Big playmaker, Bad Oline.

Now I dont know all the details, but these guys are better. Just some Campbell Comparables.
Nothing wrong with going with your gut. How many times has an announcer say they think Big Ben is a top 5 qb yet statistics don't show it. Disagree on JC having all the physical tools tho. His release is slow and he is definitely a slow runner. I feel like Romo and Ben can make plays with their feet that JC normally struggles with.
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