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lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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Old 11-20-2009, 10:14 AM   #16
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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Originally Posted by Redskin Jim View Post
I have a mancrush on Cooley, he is my favorite Redskin. I would hate to see him go, but Lotus is talking sense..
I'm not a fan of Hixon by any means, you know that Jimmy. But there have been times this year where I would have loved to see Mitchells number called in the redzone. Lotus makes a good point but I want guys like Cooley on our team. We need MORE guys like him. He has a great attitude. The kind that wins championships. We should have the best two TE set in the league when he gets back. Now if we'll use it is another question...
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:17 AM   #17
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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Im in the minority, but I say we ship off Cooley, beside he is the only Redskin that has any trade value. And we rebuild from there on.

I am expecting a bunch of angry responds lol.
i agree 100% hoo. i had brought this up in another thread, and most people don't like the idea because Cooley is their " favorite" redskin. but right now he has excellent trade value, and Davis looks like he can carry the load
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:22 AM   #18
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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I'm not a fan of Hixon by any means, you know that Jimmy. But there have been times this year where I would have loved to see Mitchells number called in the redzone. Lotus makes a good point but I want guys like Cooley on our team. We need MORE guys like him. He has a great attitude. The kind that wins championships. We should have the best two TE set in the league when he gets back. Now if we'll use it is another question...
I cannot argue with your logic, Randy. I agree on all points, I too would like to see Mitchell get some more playing time. In fact, would like to see a series or two with Mitchell, Thomas, and Kelly on the feild at the same time, just to see how defenses can match up athleticly. I mean, IF we can develop these guys, we will be set in the WR department.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:31 AM   #19
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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I cannot argue with your logic, Randy. I agree on all points, I too would like to see Mitchell get some more playing time. In fact, would like to see a series or two with Mitchell, Thomas, and Kelly on the feild at the same time, just to see how defenses can match up athleticly. I mean, IF we can develop these guys, we will be set in the WR department.
I would like to see that too. I bet if they knew they were getting major time each week they would put in more time during and after practice just like Davis has. The biggest problem I have with trading Cooley is I don't like trading one of our most productive players while he is still young. He still has probowl years ahead of him and he's had a big impact on Davis from what I understand. I don't think trading guys like that helps your team. Cooley is a TEAM guy. I'd rather keep him and his production.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:42 AM   #20
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

Im not against trading Cooley either, but what would you consider reasonable compensation for him. If we can only get a 3rd, no way. Maybe a very early 2nd, but I'd still be skeptical.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:50 AM   #21
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

If we're going to trade someone why not Fred Davis? If he can produce he could conceivably get us more than Cooley what with him being 4 years younger. And Davis hasn't established himself with the organization or community the way Cooley has.

Would prefer that we just keep them both though
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:08 AM   #22
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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Then we should draft a stud OT with the first round pick we already have instead of getting rid of one of our best players. I mean it's not like Cooley is Tony Gonzalez' age you know.
In my argument we would need to draft OL high AND acquire others. Our o-line is kind of a mess and needs more than the injection of one good player.

The fact that Cooley is young is an excellent counterargument to the trade talk. However, if we follow that logic but still want to parlay our riches at TE into riches at another position, Davis is the younger of the two and so would be the keeper.

I'm not making a strong argument here. I love Cooley's attitude and I definitely understand the idea of some that he is a keeper. But having seen Cutler become the rebuilding future of Denver via trade, and Seymour become the future of New England via trade, perhaps trading Cooley isn't so crazy.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:23 PM   #23
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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It's nice to see him taking advantage of the opportunity, with the way he's played you can't help but wonder why the coaches didn't get him on the field sooner.
I constantly wonder why our coaching staff/s have for years now held young players back so much. Right now our young guys should be out there. Barnes ought to be playing the #2 right now. They never should have taken Reinhart out. It never ceases to amaze how we, and so many other NFL teams, would rather play a mediocre veteran who wont make as many mistakes over a younger player who might make mistakes but will also make plays. It so retards the growth of the younger players. They get to the point of not making mistakes faster if you play them you dopes!
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:41 PM   #24
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

Two good TE's is a waste of one good TE. Ive never seen two TE's produce good numbers on the same team. The closest I can think of is Greg Olsen and Devin Clark going for 936 yards and 6 tds in 2007. In that same year Cooley and Yoder went for 893 yards and 9 tds. Id say the Cooley/Yoder combo was better, especially considering that Yoder is a blocking TE.
Also in that same year, Antonio Gates by himself had 984 yards and 9 tds, Jason Witten got 1145 yards and 7 tds by himself, Tony Gonzolez got 1172 yards and 5 tds by himself, Kellen Winslow got 1106 yards and 5 tds by himself, and Dallas Clark got 616 yards and 11 tds by himself
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:56 PM   #25
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

In my double post (sorry) I'd like to say that there is next to no way were going to trade either cooley or davis. That is simply because we cannot get value for either. Davis is has not produced enough to get high compensation for, and we will not trade him for anything less than we drafted him for. Cooley I feel we would not trade for anything other than a first because that is what we value him at. I do not feel like there is a market for giving up a first rounder for cooley. He will be 28 next season (not that old, I know), and he is coming off a season ending injury, which means that his next season will probably not be so great and it means that he will not be able to produce to his potential for more than a few years after. But even ignoring his age and injury, his numbers are not worth a first. He seems to be able to produce about 60-65 catches for 750 yards and 6 tds consistently which is not worth a first rounder. Also he is known for drops, which is not good. If davis has a stellar second half of the season, I personally would trade cooley for a second, but know that redskins management wont

edit: Winslow, Shockey, and Gonzolez all went for seconds. Cooley is not more valuable than any of them
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:08 PM   #26
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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With what we've seen from Davis it also gives me some hope for Kelly and Thomas. I'm not sure they've really had the best opportunities to show what they can do.
Yeah I mean so much of it is system and QB (and O-line for that matter). I haven't been a fan of Kelly or Thomas thus far, and we certainly haven't seen much production out of them. But really, who is producing in this pathetic offense? You can't tell me guys like Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon have more talent than Kelly and Thomas. We just stink.

As far as Fred Davis and Chris Cooley, I'm happy to keep them both. Good teams in this league are deep. We have one young, perennial all-pro at TE, and another young, starting caliber TE. We're a team that's been bereft of quality pass catchers for a long time. Maybe moving forward some two TE sets will help overcome the lack of production from our lousy WR corps.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:11 PM   #27
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

I love that we finally have some depth at TE and then we're ready to ship one of them off. Sure, we need depth other places, but I'd rather at least know that if Cooley or Davis goes down, the other is there to pick up the slack!
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:14 PM   #28
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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Originally Posted by skinster View Post
In my double post (sorry) I'd like to say that there is next to no way were going to trade either cooley or davis. That is simply because we cannot get value for either. Davis is has not produced enough to get high compensation for, and we will not trade him for anything less than we drafted him for. Cooley I feel we would not trade for anything other than a first because that is what we value him at. I do not feel like there is a market for giving up a first rounder for cooley. He will be 28 next season (not that old, I know), and he is coming off a season ending injury, which means that his next season will probably not be so great and it means that he will not be able to produce to his potential for more than a few years after. But even ignoring his age and injury, his numbers are not worth a first. He seems to be able to produce about 60-65 catches for 750 yards and 6 tds consistently which is not worth a first rounder. Also he is known for drops, which is not good. If davis has a stellar second half of the season, I personally would trade cooley for a second, but know that redskins management wont

edit: Winslow, Shockey, and Gonzolez all went for seconds. Cooley is not more valuable than any of them
Huh? First of all, he'll be back on the field in two weeks probably. Secondly, he is in the midst of his prime. I see no reason why we won't get 4 or 5 more pro-bowl caliber years out of Chris. Third, how does the fact that he broke a bone in his ankle mean he won't be able to produce down the road? That makes zero sense. And fourth, he's "known for drops?" Not at all. He's got the best hands on our team, and is a monster after the catch. He's had a fumble here and there, but who hasn't? I don't have a big issue with a fumble or two per year out of a guy who sees around 90 targets a year.

Not sure where you're getting this stuff from.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:20 PM   #29
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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I agree Randy, but to add to that, I think Hixon and the other staff have no clue how to develop a WR. How many Talented young recievers have come here and never developed? Jacobs comes to mind but There are a few more I'm sure.
Jacobs was flat out never that good. He flamed out in SF and Denver after doing the same here. Rod Gardner and Michael Westbrook are better examples of guys who both had a 1000 yard, 8-9 TD season, and regressed after that. Taylor Jacobs was flat out soft - the guy would be out for 3 weeks with a hangnail. That we passed on Anquan Boldin (and Osi Umenyiora) to draft Spurrier's former Gator still haunts this franchise.

As for Fred Davis, I'm glad to see him finally running with authority after the catch. I had about enough of seeing him try to hurdle every would be tackler in his earlier opportunities. Can't wait to see him operating with Cooley when Chris is healthy again.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:22 PM   #30
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Re: lil bro (#86FD) showing his worth...

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
If we're going to trade someone why not Fred Davis? If he can produce he could conceivably get us more than Cooley what with him being 4 years younger. And Davis hasn't established himself with the organization or community the way Cooley has.

Would prefer that we just keep them both though
I think having two effective TEs will greatly speed up the improvement on the line personally. Unless there was a high second rounder floating around out there, I'd just keep them both.
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