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Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

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Old 12-07-2009, 11:29 AM   #31
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

I honestly want Rock starting at RB. He isn't going to break a seventy-yard touchdown run, but he always gets some tough yards and does shed some tackles. Still maybe draft a change-of-pace back in the later rounds of the draft, but after how this season has gone, it's amazing how just being "hungry" makes the team look a lot better with players that have something to prove.
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:37 AM   #32
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

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Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN View Post
If you look at the schedule of games played this year this team has been in every game. The worst loss was to Atlanta by 14 points and that was when during the 1st half the team looked as if had quit, after the second half these team has been playing a lot better despite all the injuries, turmoil and last minute heartbreaking losses. It would be dumb to let Campbell walk, we should fire Vinny get another GM, keep Zorn as HC and Sherm Lewis as OC, promote Jerry Gray to DC, build the OL, draft a LB and RB and we are on our way.
I actually like this and would give it a chance.
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:45 AM   #33
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

i think our secondary needs a huge overhaul, enough with the number 1 ranked pass d, the reason we have that is cause we have a great d line and solid pass rush, if we had better cb's we could get some turnovers, what do we have now 4 ints? tryon is looking good but he isn't a shut down corner and imo he is the closest thing we have to a starting cb besides d hall, and thats a joke. and unless we get a f-ing coach with some balls then landry will run around undisciplind making terrible plays and acting like a jackass, seriously when was the last time some one sat him down and showed him on tape how much he blows, they should make him watch his game film and then his brothers maybe he could learn somthing
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:46 AM   #34
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

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Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection View Post
I honestly want Rock starting at RB. He isn't going to break a seventy-yard touchdown run, but he always gets some tough yards and does shed some tackles. Still maybe draft a change-of-pace back in the later rounds of the draft, but after how this season has gone, it's amazing how just being "hungry" makes the team look a lot better with players that have something to prove.
I've always been a big CP fan but I think the past few weeks have shown that we can survive just fine with a rotation of guys like Betts, Rock, Ganther, etc.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:09 PM   #35
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

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Originally Posted by diehardskin2982 View Post
Who goes for me by trade, retire, or release. No personal feelings just business:
Todd Collins
Phillip Daniels
Malcolm Kelly
Marcus Mason
Anthony Montgomery
Fred Smoot
Antwaan Randle El
Carlos Rogers
Renaldo Wynn
Ladell Betts
Chris Samuels
Randy Thomas
Jim Zorn

Notable not on list:
Laron Landry- He is a great player out of position. We need a free safety to give us the opportunity to move him to his natural position.
Clinton Portis- I really would like to see how he would be in a real rotation and behind a decent oline, I'm not ready to give up on him yet. His "me-first" attitude and unwillingness to practice I am also willing to let him go though.
Santanna Moss- Has heart and could be a monster if he is shifted around the formations to create mismatches as well as the slot.
Why Kelly? What has he done that would require/justify him to be cut? Letting a guy go after 2 seasons?
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:09 PM   #36
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

Vinny Cerrato seems to get a lot of stick on virtually every thread yet at the same time most seem to agree we have a lot of good young players to look to the future with.

I had a quick look through the roster for guys that Cerrato has brought in during his 2 years in charge and have made a significant contribution already or promise to in the near future.

Kevin Barnes
Fred Davis
Quinton Ganther
DeAngelo Hall
Albert Haynesworth
Chris Horton
Jeremy Jarmon
Levi Jones
Malcolm Kelly
Marko Mitchell
Brian Orakpo
Chad Rinehart
Hunter Smith
Devin Thomas
Justin Tryon
Mike Williams

That's not a bad group in my opinion.

Does he get unfair stick?
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:13 PM   #37
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

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Originally Posted by davy View Post
Vinny Cerrato seems to get a lot of stick on virtually every thread yet at the same time most seem to agree we have a lot of good young players to look to the future with.

I had a quick look through the roster for guys that Cerrato has brought in during his 2 years in charge and have made a significant contribution already or promise to in the near future.

Kevin Barnes
Fred Davis
Quinton Ganther
DeAngelo Hall
Albert Haynesworth
Chris Horton
Jeremy Jarmon
Levi Jones
Malcolm Kelly
Marko Mitchell
Brian Orakpo
Chad Rinehart
Hunter Smith
Devin Thomas
Justin Tryon
Mike Williams

That's not a bad group in my opinion.

Does he get unfair stick?
He's done a decent job but one minor detail, he forgot to address the OL during his tenure. Hell, he even forgot to address the DL before this past off season when Haynesworth, Orakpo and Jarmon were brought in. He might have an eye for talent but his priorities are skewed.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:16 PM   #38
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

I've never been a big CP fan and not only do I think we can survive without him, I think we can thrive without him. He's a me player not a team player and teams win championships. I've always thought his diva attitude with not practicing and throwing his team mates and coaches under the bus has been vastly underrated as to how detrimental it is to the team. But...that's just my opinion.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:19 PM   #39
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

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I'd add Portis to your list of guys who need to go (if there's no new CBA of course).

No way we're getting a 1st for Landry right now.
I bet we could get at least a 2nd from Oakland. Serious.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:23 PM   #40
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

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Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN View Post
If you look at the schedule of games played this year this team has been in every game. The worst loss was to Atlanta by 14 points and that was when during the 1st half the team looked as if had quit, after the second half these team has been playing a lot better despite all the injuries, turmoil and last minute heartbreaking losses. It would be dumb to let Campbell walk, we should fire Vinny get another GM, keep Zorn as HC and Sherm Lewis as OC, promote Jerry Gray to DC, build the OL, draft a LB and RB and we are on our way.
I actually was thinking of something like this after the Saints game.. The players are finally responding to Zorn; it's probably because Zorn has less responsibilities to do and then he's able to do his job better now.. Although Zorn still has ways to go such as making decisions on play callings and such, but he's only 2nd year coach and looking on his resume; we are asking a lot from Zorn.. Zorn is being enriched with experiences and it will help.. I believe with new GM, and keep some of coaches intact.. We would be better team next year, assuming the new GM doesn't blow up the team..

It might would be good idea to keep Lewis as OC next year but we definitely need to find a guy for Lewis to mentor so that guy could become OC next season when Lewis is gone..

Edit: I'm somewhat unsure of the idea of promoting Gray to DC.. I used to advocate it but now, I'm not so sure anymore, especially after the Laron Landry's performance.. If I recall right, it was Gray's idea to bench Rogers after he let two big plays in Broncos game.. Why didn't Gray decide to bench Landry when he let two big plays, especially the one that basically cost us the game? I want our head coach (Zorn), OC (Lewis), and DC (either Gray or whoever else) to force the players to take responsible for their errors..
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:23 PM   #41
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

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I've never been a big CP fan and not only do I think we can survive without him, I think we can thrive without him. He's a me player not a team player and teams win championships. I've always thought his diva attitude with not practicing and throwing his team mates and coaches under the bus has been vastly underrated as to how detrimental it is to the team. But...that's just my opinion.
You know who also falls into this category? Laron Landry and DeAngelo Hall.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:30 PM   #42
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

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You know who also falls into this category? Laron Landry and DeAngelo Hall.
Landry and Hall aren't being divas, compared to Portis.. They both just have different ways of being "diva"; Landry celebrating every tackle, even if when the player gained big chunk of yardages.. This is becoming terribly annoying, I basically had to look away from tv whenever I see Landry making tackle.. I'm really surprised that nobody tried to get Landry to reduce it.. As for Hall; yes he did throw our front office under the bus but it is time for someone to do that.. We need some players and coaches to throw our front office under the bus, given the circumstances they forced the coaches and players to be in.. Even Haynesworth did same thing..
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:37 PM   #43
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

I don't know, fellas. I'm with Pain here. Losing to NO in a trap game is no great reason for new optimism with this staff and group of players. I give lots of credit to Zorn and especially Buges for getting these guys to play with some passion. But come on. We're not close. We're grasping at straws, IMO. Psychologically speaking, we've been so beat up this year that we're like a battered spouse saying, Yeah, he's not that bad. It's some kind of PTSD or something.

Step one: get a real GM. Then let him evaluate the roster and make decisions. No doubt some/many players will stay. But I highly doubt a good new GM is going to stick with the old regime's failed coaching staff. Why do that? As for players, let the new GM/staff have their say.

If Vinny is still in charge, what evidence do we have that things will get better? More mediocrity at best, I'm afraid.

I loved the effort and some of the play yesterday, but facts are facts. We are not close.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:38 PM   #44
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diehardskin2982 View Post
Who goes for me by trade, retire, or release. No personal feelings just business:
Todd Collins
Phillip Daniels
Malcolm Kelly
Marcus Mason
Anthony Montgomery
Fred Smoot
Antwaan Randle El
Carlos Rogers
Renaldo Wynn
Ladell Betts
Chris Samuels
Randy Thomas
Jim Zorn

Notable not on list:
Laron Landry- He is a great player out of position. We need a free safety to give us the opportunity to move him to his natural position.
Clinton Portis- I really would like to see how he would be in a real rotation and behind a decent oline, I'm not ready to give up on him yet. His "me-first" attitude and unwillingness to practice I am also willing to let him go though.
Santanna Moss- Has heart and could be a monster if he is shifted around the formations to create mismatches as well as the slot.
I would put Moss on the trade list and keep Kelly instead. I'd also keep Betts.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:45 PM   #45
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Re: Who Stays And Who Goes? Perceptions Changing?

We need to shop away CP, Landry, and Rogers.
Between the three of them, I think they are the biggest distractions to the team- I want to add Hall to the list but we can't get rid of our entire secondary. Portis's attitude, Landry's showboat attitude, and unfortunately Roger's standoff with the organization and coaches.

To note though, the great and late Sean Taylor's first two seasons were spotted with blown assignments, unsportsmanlike conduct penalties- you name it. It wasn't until seasons 3 and 4 that he became the player we hoped we'd get out of him.

Otherwise, between the three of them we can probably get a few quality mid-round picks. Maybe a 2 and 3?
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