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Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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Old 12-10-2009, 02:16 PM   #91
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re: Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat View Post
3 96 Chad Rinehart T Northern Iowa - I'm not ready to close the book on Rinehart just yet, but he's looking like a bust. FAIL
I thought Rhinehart got back in the lineup and was doing well until he got hurt?
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:21 PM   #92
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re: Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Vinny's and DS decision to not the address the Oline the last several years has to be this duo biggest downfall and in my opinion to see the oline collaspe so early in the season, Vinny should be fired for that alone after watching what happened last season. Since we are bring up the draft, How many Olinemen has Snyder/Vinny drafted in the last 10 years?
I don't think it's so much failure to address as it is how they've addressed. They have gone after and brought in guys...but maybe not the right guys

As for how many they have drafted

http://www.thewarpath.net/608237-post34.html (Gotta love Riggo: Tells Vinny to go do radio fulltime)
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:22 PM   #93
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re: Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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Originally Posted by mlmdub130 View Post
because we didn't have a running back under 27 thats why. we are short on rb's now because we wait til we are forced to. thats why the hell the draft is there for depth so you can get players and groom them, not to get them so they can start the next f-ing year!!!

thats why vinny is a a terrible personell guy, and ss i don't know names of many other teams personell guys but i would say some one like the guy they have in b more, or even philly, somone goes down they have depth
gotta say, this year seems like a knock against the bolded part. We have had 11 guys go on IR, including 3 ProBowlers, and our rookies and 2nd year guys have been coming in and filling the slack very well. Which is what I would call grooming them so they can come in as needed. Obviously, you don't like Vinny, most on this board would like to see him gone, but I think BHA has made a fair case that IF!!!! the strategy was to take care of the skill positions that need time to develop first, and come back and get the more "generic" positions later, then this next draft would be a key to proving that.

Fans tend to forget the previous years rants and raves and look through "grass is greener" type glasses. For example, last year we were screaming both lines needed fixing, before that we screamed for tall WR's and both Lines. Now we are screaming mainly for OL, maybe LBs. You cannot fill every need in a team immediately, and for every solid pick that was a better choice than the Skins made, I am pretty sure you could find a pick or two that were obviously worse.

With all that said, the OL has to be a priority this year, and hedged UFA's and out of work 1st rounders won't cut it. We need to pick up 2 maybe 3 solid OL players early in the draft, and get them out on the field, assuming they aren't busts. It amazes me that on this boards dream draft there are anything other than OL listed, and further that for all the screaming about consistency and patience, people want to blow it all up. (note i am sure I have fallen trap to that emotion some of my posts, but really BHA's analysis, and the play of the team the last few weeks, show that there is a firm foundation here, and we need to be VERY careful what we scream for, cuz we might just get it)
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:34 PM   #94
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re: Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
Matty:

Art Rooney doesn't go scouting. Robert Kraft doesn't go scouting. Jeffrie Lurie doesn't go scouting. Those are three NFL situations I know are the case. Their teams are pretty successful year over year...


I seriously doubt that other successful owners regularly went out to scout players on their own in past times. - - other than Jerry Jones who has been the owner AND GM of the team for the last 15 years or so. And by the way, it has been 13 years since the Cowboys won a playoff game. Oh, you can put George Halas in the bin of owners who scouted too; of course he was the head coach in addition to all of the other responsibilities... Those were simpler times.


Here is what bothers me about Snyder scouting a QB:
Back in his early years here, he boasted to the Washington Post Sunday Magazine in an article on him that HE was the one who found Patrick Ramsey and made sure the team drafted Ramsey with its first draft pick.
That tells me that Danny Boy would not know a great QB if it came up to him and bit him on the ass and announced in a loud voice, "I am a great QB!"

I agree here. The other owners aren't going around doing this stuff. Well Jerry Jones does but at least he puts his name on it. It's just the same old shit. And yeah Danny Boy was impressed that Ramsey threw the ball all over the field during the combine and so we had to have him. lol. But in their defense maybe they were there looking at other players and not just McCoy. I might have to turn in my Redskin colors if we draft McCoy.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:43 PM   #95
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re: Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat View Post
Before you crucify the man, lets take a look at the two drafts we've had with Cerrato as the ultimate descision maker:

2008

Round / Overall Selection / Name / Position / College / Comments / Grade
2 34 Devin Thomas WR Michigan State - Is in the process of becoming a solid #2 Receiver PASS
2 48 Fred Davis TE USC - He's no where near as good as Cooley, but he's certainly better than many starting TE's in the league.PASS
2 51 Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma - He's contributing. When he was drafted, it was really a hedge against the Thomas pick. we were really just hoping that one of our two 2nd round WRs would work out. If Kelly becomes a situational #3/#4 WR, then i'll view the pick as a success. As for now, the Verdicts still out. VERDICT'S OUT
3 96 Chad Rinehart T Northern Iowa - I'm not ready to close the book on Rinehart just yet, but he's looking like a bust. FAIL
4 124 Justin Tryon CB Arizona State - A cornerback drafted in the 4th round is not expected to be anything more than a #3 or #4 corner. Tryon's filling tha trole nicely. PASS
6 168 Durant Brooks P Georgia Tech - No discussion necessary. FAIL
6 180 Kareem Moore DB Nicholls State - Moor is doing everything you'd expect from a 6th round WR. He's contributing on special teams and not killing us when he plays on defense. Good pick. PASS
6 186 Colt Brennan QB Hawaii - He served as a #3 QB last year and probably would have earned the same role this year had he not been injured and placed on IR. We may never see what he could have become here because, as he was Zorn's QB, he'll likely be cut by our next head coach. VERDICT'S OUT
7 242 Rob Jackson DE Kansas State - He made the final 53 man roster as a rookie and he's still with the team now. He's made some plays when he gets on the field. He doesn't kill us when he comes in to spell a starter. As a 7th round pick, thats all we can expect. PASS
7 249 Chris Horton SS UCLA - Became a starter as a rookie, lost the job his second year, but still contributed significantly until he was placed on IR. We can all agree this was a great pick. PASS


2008
Round / Overall Selection / Name / Position / College / Comments / Grade
1 13 Brian Orakpo DE Texas - GREAT Pick. He will be a perennial pro-bowler. PASS
3 80 Kevin Barnes CB Maryland - We haven't seen him much, but injuries to our starters have given him more playing time. The fact that his name hasn't been mentioned much is a good sign. It means he hasnt been making big mistakes. I realize its still too early to tell, but i'll give this pick a passing grade. PASS
5 158 Cody Glenn LB Nebraska - Who? FAIL
6 186 Robert Henson OLB TCU - He's on the team. Hasn't done anything noteable as of yet.VERDICT'S OUT
7 221 Eddie Williams TE Idaho - He hasn't done anything yet and now he's on IR. VERDICT'S OUT
7 243 Marko Mitchell WR Nevada - I'm tempted to say the verdict's still out, but Mitchell's already done more than you'd expect from a 7th round compensatory selection and has shown alot of promise. I'm gonna give him a pass. PASS

So there ya go. I guess everyone has their opinion, but there's not too much to hate about how this team has acquired players under Cerrato. The only truly questionable decision he's made is trading a 2nd and a 6th round pick for Jason Taylor. It was a desperation move. Most of us didnt like it at the time and we all agree it was a huge mistake now.
Thomas has had one or two good games and one of them was against a team that was pulling cb's off the street. Let's not overvalue the guys on this team yet just cause they're Redskins. Right now the only true keeper is probably Orakpo. The rest of them the verdict is still out.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:44 PM   #96
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re: Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

Just draft a starting caliber LT and I'll be happy. Draft a starting caliber guard to go with him and I'll shut up for a year. If they draft another WR, I'll continue to bad mouth Vinny and Dan.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:49 PM   #97
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Re: Some Thing Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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Originally Posted by mlmdub130 View Post
desaen jackson was drafted right after fred davis, and ray rice was drafted three or four spots behind kelly, not to mention we needed lineman in both of thoose drafts and we got one, vinny is terrible personell guy
I remember Vinny saying one reason they passed on Jackson was because they wanted to get bigger wr's for the WCO. See this is why Vinny is a dumb ass. You don't draft guys just cause they're big, or can run fast, or look good in their uniforms. IMO you draft guys on production...then all the other stuff comes 2nd. Now if he did that and paid attention to Jackson's body of work then he should've been a Redskin over Davis. Plus Jackson would've filled a GLARING need which is on punt returns. Total fail on Vinny's part.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:53 PM   #98
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Re: Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
Matty:

Art Rooney doesn't go scouting. Robert Kraft doesn't go scouting. Jeffrie Lurie doesn't go scouting. Those are three NFL situations I know are the case. Their teams are pretty successful year over year...


I seriously doubt that other successful owners regularly went out to scout players on their own in past times. - - other than Jerry Jones who has been the owner AND GM of the team for the last 15 years or so. And by the way, it has been 13 years since the Cowboys won a playoff game. Oh, you can put George Halas in the bin of owners who scouted too; of course he was the head coach in addition to all of the other responsibilities... Those were simpler times.


Here is what bothers me about Snyder scouting a QB:
Back in his early years here, he boasted to the Washington Post Sunday Magazine in an article on him that HE was the one who found Patrick Ramsey and made sure the team drafted Ramsey with its first draft pick.
That tells me that Danny Boy would not know a great QB if it came up to him and bit him on the ass and announced in a loud voice, "I am a great QB!"
I thought that it was Spurier (sp) that wanted Ramsey.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:57 PM   #99
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Re: Some Thing Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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I remember Vinny saying one reason they passed on Jackson was because they wanted to get bigger wr's for the WCO. See this is why Vinny is a dumb ass. You don't draft guys just cause they're big, or can run fast, or look good in their uniforms. IMO you draft guys on production...then all the other stuff comes 2nd. Now if he did that and paid attention to Jackson's body of work then he should've been a Redskin over Davis. Plus Jackson would've filled a GLARING need which is on punt returns. Total fail on Vinny's part.
Vinny would have been absolutely blasted here if he had drafted 5'10" DeSean Jackson to play alongside 5'10" Santana Moss and 5'10" Antwaan Randle El.

The Eagles have failed time and time again when it comes to selecting WRs. Good for them on Jackson...but Devin Thomas will be just as good
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:04 PM   #100
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Re: Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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I thought Rhinehart got back in the lineup and was doing well until he got hurt?
He could still bounce back, but it was my understand that even when he got healthy again, Edwin Williams was ahead of him on the depth chart. Then when Edwin got hurt, Mike Williams started at RT over Rinehart. I supposed I could have labeled him, "verdict's out," but by all appearances, he's a bust.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:05 PM   #101
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Re: Some Thing Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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I remember Vinny saying one reason they passed on Jackson was because they wanted to get bigger wr's for the WCO. See this is why Vinny is a dumb ass. You don't draft guys just cause they're big, or can run fast, or look good in their uniforms. IMO you draft guys on production...then all the other stuff comes 2nd. Now if he did that and paid attention to Jackson's body of work then he should've been a Redskin over Davis. Plus Jackson would've filled a GLARING need which is on punt returns. Total fail on Vinny's part.
Well in all fairness, if Jackson had been drafted, he would never have broken into the lineup, because Santana hasn't been injured. So he would have been inactive most of the first year, and some of this. Also, why would we have put him in to return kicks, we had others who could return kicks on the roster, and we never replaced ARE, so Jackson would not have done that either. And last I checked a 2nd rounder who only returns kicks would get the same criticism as every other draft pick gets around here.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:06 PM   #102
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Re: Some Thing Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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Who's the best personnel guy in the NFL?
I can list guys that have done a good job recently. Much better than the 9 to 10 years Vinny and Snyder have been at it:

1) GM Chris Polian Colts. Nuff said

2) GM Mickey Loomis New Orleans Saints. Great acquisitions like S Sharper, LB Vilma, TE Shockey. The Saints have struck gold in recent seasons in the NFL Draft with late-round finds such as G Jahri Evans, WR Marques Colston and G Carl Nicks. He was awarded the NFL executive of the year for 2007.

3) GM Jeff Ireland and Team President Bill Parcells; righted the ship in Miami very quickly. From NFL worst 1-15 record in 2007 to 11-5 in 2008. They are currently 6-6 but they are only one game behind first place NE.

4) GM Jerry Reese NY Giants : In one draft (2007 draft) he drafted Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, Jay Alford, Kevin Boss, Michael Johnson, Ahmad Bradshaw and Zak DeOssie. All of them contributed greatly to the Giants' Super Bowl XLII victory. Vinny can not draft like that.

5) Ozzie Newsome - Bmore Ravens. Nuff said.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:18 PM   #103
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Re: Some Thing Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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Vinny would have been absolutely blasted here if he had drafted 5'10" DeSean Jackson to play alongside 5'10" Santana Moss and 5'10" Antwaan Randle El.

The Eagles have failed time and time again when it comes to selecting WRs. Good for them on Jackson...but Devin Thomas will be just as good
Agreed. One of our biggest problems the past few years was that we had no big red zone targets for Campbell. In 2008, we drafted 3 of them. In 2010, i fully expect Thomas to be a starting WR and Kelly or Mitchell to be our #3 posession WR. Whoever our next coach is, he's going to find a way to get Davis and Cooley on the field together a lot. Moving Cooley back to H-back/TE is a possibility that others have suggested.

Hopefully, the new coaching staff will keep Campbell around for another year and resist the urge to draft one of the vastly overrated QBs in the 1st round. However, even if they make a "dumb" move and draft a QB in the 1st and OT in the 2nd (see 2008 Falcons), then the rookie QB will benefit from having 5 BIG targets to throw at (Davis, Kelly, Thomas, Cooley, and Mitchell). One of the biggest problems rookie quarterbacks experience is how fast the NFL is and how accurate their throws must be since NFL DBs dont let WRs get open nearly as much as their college counterparts. Big, phisical receivers are a rookie QBs best friend.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:20 PM   #104
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Re: Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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He could still bounce back, but it was my understand that even when he got healthy again, Edwin Williams was ahead of him on the depth chart. Then when Edwin got hurt, Mike Williams started at RT over Rinehart. I supposed I could have labeled him, "verdict's out," but by all appearances, he's a bust.
When Rinehart went down he was in the starting lineup. That's when Edwin Williams got his shot.

Edwin didn't get hurt, when big Mike was healthy he was named the starter again.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:28 PM   #105
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Re: Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

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When Rinehart went down he was in the starting lineup. That's when Edwin Williams got his shot.

Edwin didn't get hurt, when big Mike was healthy he was named the starter again.
My bad, I forgot it was actually Eddie Williams who went to IR. Regarding our O-line, Big Mike is actually playing pretty well at guard and I would not be upset at all if Levi Jones started 2010 at LT. Obviously, neither of them are long-term solutions but they give us time to develop their replacements. Heyer just isn't getting it done though. I've been a big supporter of his for a long time, but he needs to be replaced at the first opportunity.
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