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10 Cuts-Your Call

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Old 12-22-2009, 10:35 AM   #76
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight View Post
No one is giving us a ham sandwich for Portis, Cooley or Landry. They have stupid contracts and no one is going to take them on.

The guys that could get traded would be Campbell and Rogers and we might get a 6th and 7th rounder for each.

Just like our coaches, people need to pull their head out of their asses.
First off, the point of the thread was to ignore salary cap ramifications. Second, you underestimate the value of our players and the stupidity of some NFL personnel folks (Lions, Browns, Raiders, etc.). Third, in an uncapped season dumping bad contracts in some sort of sign and trade is a possibility, even if the compensation is for 4th and lower round picks.

- Portis - some team looking for help at RB with a solid OL would be interested in him for a 1 or 2 year deal.
- Cooley - Pro Bowl TE, he has value.
- Landry - Has physical tools, upstairs seems pretty vacant but some defensive HC will look at him and blame his poor performance on the Skins poor coaching/organization and think they can make a superstar out of him.
- Campbell - as others have said he could be a solid backup or game manager, certainly worth more than a 6th rounder.
- Rogers - meh, if I can't get value keep him next year for depth.

and about pulling heads out of hind-quarters....think before you post.
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:53 AM   #77
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

Most are based on performance, some on trade value.
1. Fred Smoot
2. Jason Campbell
3. LaRon Landry
4. Chris Cooley (Trade value)
5. Carlos Rogers
6. Clinton Portis
7. Sanata moss
8. ARE
9. Chris Samuels
10. Mike Sellers


Financial Considerations not withstanding.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:10 PM   #78
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

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Originally Posted by SolidSnake84 View Post
I'm still blown out of my mind that people think Portis would generate any kind of favorable draft pick. I'm serious guys, i really believe that he would only get us a 4th round or 3rd round pick. And it's not just his physical condition/injury risk that would warn off teams...its his attitude too.
You don't consider a 3rd round pick for someone with Portis's mileage "favorable"? Vinny, is that you?!?!?!
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:20 PM   #79
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

(1) Chris Samuels
(2) Randy Thomas
(3) Clinton Portis
(4) Stephon Heyer
(5) Santana Moss
(6) ARE
(7) Ladell Betts
(8) LaRon Landry
(9) Fred Smoot
(10) Cornelius Griffin

(11) Renaldo Wynn
(12) Phillip Daniels
(13) Edwin Williams

(14) The entire coaching staff. All of them, no exceptions.

Yeah I know I went over but some of these guys are going to retire anyway.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:50 PM   #80
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
1) Heyer
2) Portis
3) Randle El
4) Sellers
5) R. Thomas
6) M. Williams
7) Rogers
8) Cartwright
9) Armstrong
10) W. Montgomery
Why cut him? He is our most consistent player.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:51 PM   #81
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
First off, the point of the thread was to ignore salary cap ramifications. Second, you underestimate the value of our players and the stupidity of some NFL personnel folks (Lions, Browns, Raiders, etc.). Third, in an uncapped season dumping bad contracts in some sort of sign and trade is a possibility, even if the compensation is for 4th and lower round picks.

- Portis - some team looking for help at RB with a solid OL would be interested in him for a 1 or 2 year deal.
- Cooley - Pro Bowl TE, he has value.
- Landry - Has physical tools, upstairs seems pretty vacant but some defensive HC will look at him and blame his poor performance on the Skins poor coaching/organization and think they can make a superstar out of him.
- Campbell - as others have said he could be a solid backup or game manager, certainly worth more than a 6th rounder.
- Rogers - meh, if I can't get value keep him next year for depth.

and about pulling heads out of hind-quarters....think before you post.
I have put plenty of thought into this and I disagree with the idea that I am undervaluing our players. The people who want to flat out release Haynesworth and Hall for nothing are undervaluing players. And the people who think we are going to get anything near a first round pick or multiple picks for any of these guys are in fantasy land.

You cannot completely ignore the cap numbers because if we trade the guys their contract goes with them. I am not worried about our cap hit, I am talking about the salaries in their current deals.

So there are two problems with Portis. One, a lot of people (I am not one of them) think he is done because of mileage and age. The second problem is his contract. Portis was the highest paid runningback this last year and produced like a backup. Good football teams don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on old runningbacks. Seattle and Arizona did it recently and both were burned. Except for a few guys, runningbacks are interchangeable. Teams would let us release Portis and then sign him but NOBODY is going to trade us anything for him.

Cooley - yes he is worth something but I don't see anyone giving us more than a third. He is expensive for a tight end and his contract would go with him.

Landry is probably the most valuable guy in your list but we would be trading him while his value is at its lowest. We might be able to get a second rounder for him but with his coverage struggles recently, maybe not.

If Campbell was worth a second rounder he would have already been gone and we would have Cutler. So 3rd is the highest possible pick and I am not convinced the interest is out there.

Rogers - I am sure we could get a 3rd rounder for Rogers maybe a 2nd. He is an above average cornerback, solid against the run and is still working off his rookie deal.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:03 PM   #82
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

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I'd take a 3rd for Portis any day of the week.
Me too.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:16 PM   #83
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

1. Randle-El
2. Heyer
3. Cartwright
4. Smoot
5. Will Montgomery
6. Anthony Montgomery
7. Daniels
8. Portis
9. Betts
10. R. Thomas
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:18 PM   #84
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

Glad to see more people realizing Santana Moss has just lost it. I've thought that going back a couple of years now. Showboating, (not just last night but last year in Cincy with the "shoe shining" crap) easily schemed out by opposing defenses, flashes of a temper that should have gotten him thrown out of games, the guy just looks more and more like a complete bum.

And yes, the comment about how he'd never play for another owner speaks volumes about the way things are around here.

Ship his ass outta here, I don't care if we don't get a pick for him, I don't care what the cap hit is.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:24 PM   #85
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight View Post
I have put plenty of thought into this and I disagree with the idea that I am undervaluing our players. The people who want to flat out release Haynesworth and Hall for nothing are undervaluing players. And the people who think we are going to get anything near a first round pick or multiple picks for any of these guys are in fantasy land.

You cannot completely ignore the cap numbers because if we trade the guys their contract goes with them. I am not worried about our cap hit, I am talking about the salaries in their current deals.

So there are two problems with Portis. One, a lot of people (I am not one of them) think he is done because of mileage and age. The second problem is his contract. Portis was the highest paid runningback this last year and produced like a backup. Good football teams don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on old runningbacks. Seattle and Arizona did it recently and both were burned. Except for a few guys, runningbacks are interchangeable. Teams would let us release Portis and then sign him but NOBODY is going to trade us anything for him.

Cooley - yes he is worth something but I don't see anyone giving us more than a third. He is expensive for a tight end and his contract would go with him.

Landry is probably the most valuable guy in your list but we would be trading him while his value is at its lowest. We might be able to get a second rounder for him but with his coverage struggles recently, maybe not.

If Campbell was worth a second rounder he would have already been gone and we would have Cutler. So 3rd is the highest possible pick and I am not convinced the interest is out there.

Rogers - I am sure we could get a 3rd rounder for Rogers maybe a 2nd. He is an above average cornerback, solid against the run and is still working off his rookie deal.
i agree with you about portis... it's one of those deals that if we put him on the trade block, an interested team will not give us anything becasue they know we'll want to cut him, and no one will want to rake his contract...

if we do decide not to keep campbell and tender him (i think we should keep him), you never know what we could get... looking at the contract orlovsky signed with the texans, (3 years, 9 mil!) and these same texans getting a fourth for rosenfels (a 4th!) -- both, now, third stringers... a premium is put on QBs that aren't on any other position... campbell could fetch a third rounder, maybe a second if someone were desperate enough... i think that campbell has garnered a lot of respect around the league for his handling the cutler/sanchez saga and for the moxie in getting up over and over...

rodgers could have value, but i would try to low-ball him and keep him for depth...

keep landry, let's see what a different/better DC can do with him... he has the talent and the tools to be very good... someone like gregggg williams got that out of him... blache wasted it...

i agree that there is no way you cut haynesworth or d hall... that would be beyond foolish...
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:33 PM   #86
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

1. Santana Moss
2. ARE
3. Randy Thomas
4. Clinton Portis
5. Mike Williams
6. Heyer
7. Chris Cooley....try and trade him
8. Carlos Rogers
9. Laron Landry
10. Phillip Daniels
11. Chris Samuels
12. Tryon
13. Anthony Montgomery
14. Fred Smoot
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:33 PM   #87
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

OK, Let's take a look at the Logical Cuts, not just base upon passion and disgruntlement following one of the worst home performances in team history.

1) Clinton Portis - (complete shell of his former self)

2) Ladell Betts - (We can all count on more than 2 hands how many practice squad and currently unemployed backs are better than this clown)

3) Colt Brennan - (This publicity stunt bust of a project does not have NFL talent. Lets not waste time, try to find a real diamond in the rough. Brennan, 26, is only 1 year younger than Campbell, 27, and will never be as good as Jason -who is only mediocre himself-. How bout this analogy: Brennan is to Quarterbacking as Zorn is to Coaching. Both are way in over their head. Also Richard Bartell actually has a better arm and more tools to work with than Brennan)

4) Rock Cartwright - (Backup running backs are supposed to have some kind of dynamic trait. Super Speed, Excellent Hands, Exceptional Return man, etc. Rock is no longer a very effective returner. We appreciate everything, but it's time to move on.)

5) Antwaan Randle-El - (Past his prime and salary does not reflect anticipated future contributions. He's no longer a valid punt return option and with the development of the young pass catchers, should fall further down the pecking order.)

6) William Robinson - (Position will be upgraded during off-season)

7) Fred Smoot - (Past his prime and fading fast. Let Barnes and Tryon get the reps, one of them should grow into the future nickleback. We appreciate all the hard work in the past and the great interviews.)

8) Reynaldo Wynn - (Also past prime and fading fast. Thanks for being a grizzled warrior but we need to develop Jarmon and started getting him in on the DE rotations.

9) Philip Daniels - (Past prime/Fading fast, excellent technique guy but no longer has the talent to perform. We REALLY appreciate the loyalty and hunger. Would you like to stick around as a DE coach to teach technique to the young guys and be a presence in the Locker Room?)

10) Kareem Moore - (Questionable ability... Lets rid ourselves of someone that causes opposing QB's to salivate when they see him lined up in the defensive backfield. Can't cover TE's. Position should be upgraded during the offseason and also an attempt made to get Landry to his natural position.)
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:34 PM   #88
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
1) Heyer
2) Portis
3) Randle El
4) Sellers
5) R. Thomas
6) M. Williams
7) Rogers
8) Cartwright
9) Armstrong
10) W. Montgomery
I definitely want him gone. That guy has been fucking it up game in and game out since day 1.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:35 PM   #89
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

What do people think about getting rid of Cooley? I don't think we could get more than a 3rd for him. But this kid Davis is might be a better player. Vinny really got a good one here. This guy can play.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:49 PM   #90
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Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call

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What do people think about getting rid of Cooley? I don't think we could get more than a 3rd for him. But this kid Davis is might be a better player. Vinny really got a good one here. This guy can play.
They are really different types of tight ends. Davis is more of an Antonio Gates athletic-down the field, big YAC potential type while Cooley is more of the Jason Witten solid when you need a 1st down, move the chains, over the middle/in the flats type. I say give Shanny (or whomever) a year to figure out the way to use them both and if not then see what you can get for one of them. The emergence of Davis really makes ARE expendable because we can now show a 2 WR-2 TE set and spread the field out to 4 wide and have mismatches on LB.
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