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Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

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Old 12-23-2009, 04:11 PM   #31
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

I guess I am one of the only people on here that is completely NOT a Tryon fan. In my opinion, he is too undersized and plays with too poor of technique to make up for his above-average speed.

If a defense wanted to... they could go after and torch him all day...

I guess that where my thinking that CB is a big need comes from. Looks like many around here think of Tryon as having some quality...

I hope you all are right!! To me.... he'd be similar to Leigh Torrence (yeah I said it) as a starting CB.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:12 PM   #32
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

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I'd put RB before DB. Portis, Betts, Cartwright, Mason, and Ganther could conceivably all be gone
Agreed. I also agree about the OL mentioned above.

If Rogers and Smoot are gone, they will need replacing, though. So I think the defensive backfield needs attention. It is priority #3 in my mind, after OL and RB.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:15 PM   #33
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

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I do not think that you are giving the secondary the credit that they deserve. They have played lights out at times. Everyone just wants to focus on the double moves that went for big plays, but no one ever talks about the batted balls, coverage sacks, and balls jarred loose from punishing hits in the secondary.

I would venture to say that if our record was 10-4 that no one would be complaining about this secondary having the same stats. We would still be bitching however, that our QB was taking too many hits.
Was it against Matt Stafford or Matt Cassel we were playing lights out against?

The double moves have been the most glaring example of a greater problem: this is a zone coverage team that was never taught to play zone defense. Last year, during the 6-2 start, we were a man coverage team who would challenge receivers. We also faced some bad quarterbacks then, but rarely did we give up uncontested pass plays.

We haven't even competed in the secondary this year. The reason that no one ever talks about the batted balls, coverage sacks, and big hits is because they don't happen anymore.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:18 PM   #34
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

See... I'm also of the opinion that Ganther and Mason have shown enough to trust going into 2010.

I am actually VERY impressed with Ganther's running style... he does NOT go down easily and gets those finishing yards.

And with Shanahan's running style and an improved line? Why focus on a position where 7th rounders come in and avg 4.5 yds per carry every year??

And who said Portis is going anywhere?

RB is not a need in my mind.... just my 2 cents.

Even if Portis goes... which I really don't think he will... we could get one late in the draft... this is one area where Shanny has shown ability to scout.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:20 PM   #35
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

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Yeah, if he goes after LeGarrette Blount, I'll be worried.

You're speaking to the president of the "Shanahan can't draft" club. But even though he misses on a lot of picks, the running backs who PLAY always perform.
Has Blount had any issues other than the punch? He might be worth a look late in the draft or if he goes undrafted. I'd prefer if he's an UDFA though since he didn't exactly come back strong despite practicing with the team the whole time.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:21 PM   #36
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

Ganther and Mason have played--er, run--well, but they also represent freely available talent. Whoever is the next coach will have his own Mason and Ganther, who aren't the same person, but do the exact same thing for the exact same cost. Rock, on the other hand, would need to have his special teams ability replaced, but his running ability is freely available.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:23 PM   #37
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

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Has Blount had any issues other than the punch? He might be worth a look late in the draft or if he goes undrafted. I'd prefer if he's an UDFA though since he didn't exactly come back strong despite practicing with the team the whole time.
I don't think he has. I'm just pointing out that he's a douchebag.

If he's a scheme fit, and he doesn't cost anything, then he can be a douchebag who scores 8 TDs for my team. But those are the kind of guys that you have to be right on, and SmootSmack was pointing out that Shanahan has brought these guys in, and then found out they couldn't play at a later time.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:25 PM   #38
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

I personally think Ganther could be a diamond in the rough kind of guy in a Shanahan running scheme... just like T. Davis, Portis, M. Anderson, O. Gary, R. Droughns, T. Bell, etc.

But yeah... the point is ... we DEFINITELY need a QUALITY cornerback FAR MORE than Running Back

And I guess another good question (possibly for another thread) is how much credit does Shanahan get for drafting those guys mentioned?

Clarett was an idiot, not a bad runner... and Henry was a traded for idiot. The question is... Isn't Shanahan damn good at evaluating RBs who fit his scheme?? (like I said... off-subject... but would make for an interesting debate)
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:25 PM   #39
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

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I always read on this site about next year's QB and line needing to be worked out... which I agree with... Our offensive line is a MAJOR need...

but...

Isn't cornerback going to be just as big a need to address as OL in the offseason??

If Rogers goes, which he very likely will, we will have D Hall and who else?? Tryon?? Smoot?? Westbrook?? Those 3 aren't good enough to be trusted to play nickel, much less 2nd starter.

We need TWO corners who are step ups from those 3 for sure.

I'm thinking the team COULD surprise everyone and go with a guy like CB Joe Hayden out of Florida with the first pick in the draft and draft linemen with the rest. (I mean no one knows).

I'd rather get a corner through FA and draft line, line, line... but the point is we HAVE TO HAVE a starting CB in 2010 opposite D. Hall....

and I'm sure Bruce Allen knows this after he took copious notes on our pass defense (or lack-thereof) against the G-Men.

EDIT: I left out Kevin Barnes ... but considering he hasn't seen the field this year over Smoot or Tryon... ummm ... I have no clue what he can contribute
Sure. Why not just replace the whole O-line with matadors? Better yet, instead of uniforms we could give them door mats to wear. Wearing the negative six (-06) door mat, stephanie heyer. BOOOOOOO!
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:26 PM   #40
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

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I don't think he has. I'm just pointing out that he's a douchebag.

If he's a scheme fit, and he doesn't cost anything, then he can be a douchebag who scores 8 TDs for my team. But those are the kind of guys that you have to be right on, and SmootSmack was pointing out that Shanahan has brought these guys in, and then found out they couldn't play at a later time.
Yeah, the punch didn't bother me all that much because Hout was being a HUGE douchebag the whole game. If that happened with helmets on it wouldn't be any different than what we saw Monday night. The part that bothered me was his continued anger when he was being escorted away.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:26 PM   #41
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

Tripp, I know that you watch the games more than once as do I. Even in the games that they get burned on double moves they make outstanding plays in the secondary in other parts of the game. Sometimes when you make big plays it also makes you vulnerable to big plays and I think that is the problem that everyone is having. To say that they have only played well in a couple of games goes beyond stretching the truth.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:27 PM   #42
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

Cb is a big need as well probably 3rd or 4th on the list for this team

LT, RT,QB,FS,CB,,RB,OG, OLB...In that order only because running backs can be found in the later rounds
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:34 PM   #43
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I'd put RB before DB. Portis, Betts, Cartwright, Mason, and Ganther could conceivably all be gone

No way this guy would ever be considered a featured back, but remember Anthony Alridge? Shanahan was the one that recomended to Cerrato he take a look at this guy and they spoke highly of him in Denver as though some there didn't want to see him leave.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:37 PM   #44
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

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Tripp, I know that you watch the games more than once as do I. Even in the games that they get burned on double moves they make outstanding plays in the secondary in other parts of the game. Sometimes when you make big plays it also makes you vulnerable to big plays and I think that is the problem that everyone is having. To say that they have only played well in a couple of games goes beyond stretching the truth.
It's impossible to separate how much of the preparation for the game is Gray/Blache, and how much is just Rogers and Hall and Landry not being physical with the receivers. I'm not trying to do that.

I'm saying this group is a very reactive bunch. They never look like they have any idea what they are running. And it has an adverse effect on the outcome of plays. I'm not disagreeing with you that there's no talent here, or that they aren't underachieving to an extent.

But in Blache's defense (and Gray's), scheming for Rogers/Smoot and Hall runs into the same problem that the Raiders did when they were trying to scheme for Asomugha and Hall. Rogers may not be a great player, but he did have a great season in 2008, and a great half season in 2007. When Hall was getting absolutely smoked in Oakland, he was doing so because of man coverage scheme and reactive zones that were playing to the strengths of the Oakland secondary...because it allows Nnamdi to take away a side of the field. Hall was a fish out of water there. And, frankly, we were running the exact same scheme.

We're not running the same scheme at all this year. Everything we've done since the bye week has been cover two, cover three, quarters, quarter-half, stuff that makes Hall comfortable because he doesn't have underneath coverage responsibility. And we've taken our best defensive player in the secondary, and have completely marginalized him. We've taken Landry, and have exposed him to primary zone coverage responsiblities and restricted him. And worse of all, we've taken Smoot, and given him something to think about out there.

The film sees a complete disaster. I think there's more to it that that, but there needs to be some sort of tear down before we can rebuild. If Hall is going to be the centerpiece, then fine, get rid of everyone else. Get rid of Landry, of Rogers, of Moore, of McIntosh, of Fletcher and draft zone coverage players. We need a new scheme, and a new page, but there also has to be a talent shift.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:39 PM   #45
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Re: Isn't Cornerback as Big a Need as OL?

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No way this guy would ever be considered a featured back, but remember Anthony Alridge? Shanahan was the one that recomended to Cerrato he take a look at this guy and they spoke highly of him in Denver as though some there didn't want to see him leave.
I'd like to see him given another chance.. if Mason can get one Alridge should.
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