Franchise Quarterbacks

LandrySlice · 12-28-2009, 07:08 AM

Yeah, Blache is outy! This has been a tough season to stomach, but a top 5 pick should be a worthy reward! PLEASE TAKE A TACKLE MR ALLEN!

sportscurmudgeon · 12-28-2009, 02:39 PM

Donovan McNabb was taken with the #2 overall pick in the draft by the team that had THE WORST RECORD in the NFL the year before. The first pick went to the rejuvenated Cleveland Browns franchise that year; they took Tim Couch.

So, McNabb went to a team with a horrible foundation around him and with a rookie head coach who had never been a head coach at any level before that.

And I suspect that we can agree that McNabb has been sorta successful as a QB, no? So, it looks as if he succeeded in spite of all the things that "were against him" - - except for his physical and mental abilities which made him what he is.

FRPLG · 12-28-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Donovan McNabb was taken with the #2 overall pick in the draft by the team that had THE WORST RECORD in the NFL the year before. The first pick went to the rejuvenated Cleveland Browns franchise that year; they took Tim Couch.

So, McNabb went to a team with a horrible foundation around him and with a rookie head coach who had never been a head coach at any level before that.

And I suspect that we can agree that McNabb has been sorta successful as a QB, no? So, it looks as if he succeeded in spite of all the things that "were against him" - - except for his physical and mental abilities which made him what he is.

I think it seems obvious though that McNabb and Manning are exceptions. There aren't a lot of examples of bad teams drafting a good QB and turning it around quickly. Obviously it is possible but it lightening ina bottle. The more reasonable way, and least risky, is to have a solid team in place around him.

SmootSmack · 12-28-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I think it seems obvious though that McNabb and Manning are exceptions. There aren't a lot of examples of bad teams drafting a good QB and turning it around quickly. Obviously it is possible but it lightening ina bottle. The more reasonable way, and least risky, is to have a solid team in place around him.

Trying to do this has kind of been our problem, hasn't it?

FRPLG · 12-28-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Trying to do this has kind of been our problem, hasn't it?

Absolutely. We have been a a player or two away every year since Gibbs' 2nd season. Not just QB though.

At least that's what the group think was from the fans up to the top.

diehardskin2982 · 12-28-2009, 03:39 PM

The key to making a franchise QB you must build a solid group around the kid and give him the opportunity to be a leader. Do not handcuff the player, set play up to bring out his talent.

GusFrerotte · 12-28-2009, 09:57 PM

The kid has it or he doesn't. I like the Collinsworth comment about how JC has just run a new O scheme every year of his career going all the way back to HS. JC has developed as much as he can and has improved somewhat since he has been here, but his mechanics of holding onto the ball too long, the happy feet crap, etc are not systemic in nature. It means he still can't scan the entire field in the 2-3 seconds the average NFL Qb has til he has to make the throw. I know the line truly sucked this season, but still it isn't 100% line. I was at the Lions game personally and how long do the guys have to keep a rush off him til he unloads the ball? To be fair to JC, the days of the true franchise QB are coming to an end for the most part when Manning, Brady, Rivers, etc hang it up. Think about it. Every playoff team in the 1980's had HOF QBs and then some. What you have now are a bunch of scrubs for the most part, that are more products of the college system they were in before they were drafted. JC is definitely an above average QB in a league that is filled with scrubs or above average QBs, but not good enough to garner the title of franchise QB. I do not expect any of the glitzy QBs coming out of college to make it in the pros, as they are all system QBs on powerhouse teams that truly did not face too much competition in their respective conferences. Big 12 is a joke for defensive play and the Gators only real competiton all year was Bama and look what happened. Bradford is going to get crushed, McCoy will be reduced to Leinhart's status, and Teebow is overrated period. Clausen is a big question mark for me, but ND QBs have sucked in the NFL after Joey T left the game.

Mattyk · 12-29-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

The kid has it or he doesn't. I like the Collinsworth comment about how JC has just run a new O scheme every year of his career going all the way back to HS. JC has developed as much as he can and has improved somewhat since he has been here, but his mechanics of holding onto the ball too long, the happy feet crap, etc are not systemic in nature. It means he still can't scan the entire field in the 2-3 seconds the average NFL Qb has til he has to make the throw. I know the line truly sucked this season, but still it isn't 100% line. I was at the Lions game personally and how long do the guys have to keep a rush off him til he unloads the ball? To be fair to JC, the days of the true franchise QB are coming to an end for the most part when Manning, Brady, Rivers, etc hang it up. Think about it. Every playoff team in the 1980's had HOF QBs and then some. What you have now are a bunch of scrubs for the most part, that are more products of the college system they were in before they were drafted. JC is definitely an above average QB in a league that is filled with scrubs or above average QBs, but not good enough to garner the title of franchise QB. I do not expect any of the glitzy QBs coming out of college to make it in the pros, as they are all system QBs on powerhouse teams that truly did not face too much competition in their respective conferences. Big 12 is a joke for defensive play and the Gators only real competiton all year was Bama and look what happened. Bradford is going to get crushed, McCoy will be reduced to Leinhart's status, and Teebow is overrated period. Clausen is a big question mark for me, but ND QBs have sucked in the NFL after Joey T left the game.

I don't think franchise QBs are going away.

After Brady and Manning there are guys like Schaub, Rivers, Romo, Eli, Big Ben who are all under 30 and are the next franchise QBs that will dominate the game once Manning and Brady are gone.

And there are even younger guys like Matt Ryan, Sanchez, Rodgers, Flacco, Henne, Stafford, etc.

doughtydoubter · 12-29-2009, 08:40 AM

You know who i like seiously as a potential qb draft pick?
Jake Locker.

SolidSnake84 · 12-29-2009, 09:00 AM

I dont think franchise QBs are going away for good, but i agree with that poster somewhat.

Teams aren't going to want a franchise QB as much as they will want someone who can just run the offense from year to year. With the new salary cap rules, this may be born out of necessity.

I just see a team keeping a QB for 3 or 4 years instead of 10-12.....

Mattyk · 12-29-2009, 09:07 AM

What new cap rules?

With the way the league has shifted to more of a passing league, I find this take that franchise QBs are going away to be laughable, frankly.

SolidSnake84 · 12-29-2009, 09:15 AM

i was talking about the rumored new cap rules...that will go in place after this season...allegedly.

Won't this limit the big signings and set aside how much a rookie can be given??

thats all i'm saying.

Mattyk · 12-29-2009, 09:20 AM

What are the rumored new cap rules??

SmootSmack · 12-29-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doughtydoubter

You know who i like seiously as a potential qb draft pick?
Jake Locker.

Maybe in 2011

SolidSnake84 · 12-29-2009, 12:18 PM

So far all I have heard of is the draft becoming more valuable and free agency not meaning as much...That gives me the impression that a team could get themselves a good QB through the draft every 5 or 6 years instead of turning to free agency to fill holes...

12-28-2009, 07:08 AM	#16
LandrySlice Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: AFGHANISTAN Posts: 334	Re: Franchise Quarterbacks Yeah, Blache is outy! This has been a tough season to stomach, but a top 5 pick should be a worthy reward! PLEASE TAKE A TACKLE MR ALLEN! __________________ Don't tase me bro!!!!

12-28-2009, 02:39 PM	#17
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Re: Franchise Quarterbacks Donovan McNabb was taken with the #2 overall pick in the draft by the team that had THE WORST RECORD in the NFL the year before. The first pick went to the rejuvenated Cleveland Browns franchise that year; they took Tim Couch. So, McNabb went to a team with a horrible foundation around him and with a rookie head coach who had never been a head coach at any level before that. And I suspect that we can agree that McNabb has been sorta successful as a QB, no? So, it looks as if he succeeded in spite of all the things that "were against him" - - except for his physical and mental abilities which made him what he is. __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

12-28-2009, 03:39 PM	#21
diehardskin2982 What will Shanny do this offseason? Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 2,924	Re: Franchise Quarterbacks The key to making a franchise QB you must build a solid group around the kid and give him the opportunity to be a leader. Do not handcuff the player, set play up to bring out his talent. __________________ Let's win games now...PLEASE

12-28-2009, 09:57 PM	#22
GusFrerotte Playmaker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Detroit area Posts: 3,961	Re: Franchise Quarterbacks The kid has it or he doesn't. I like the Collinsworth comment about how JC has just run a new O scheme every year of his career going all the way back to HS. JC has developed as much as he can and has improved somewhat since he has been here, but his mechanics of holding onto the ball too long, the happy feet crap, etc are not systemic in nature. It means he still can't scan the entire field in the 2-3 seconds the average NFL Qb has til he has to make the throw. I know the line truly sucked this season, but still it isn't 100% line. I was at the Lions game personally and how long do the guys have to keep a rush off him til he unloads the ball? To be fair to JC, the days of the true franchise QB are coming to an end for the most part when Manning, Brady, Rivers, etc hang it up. Think about it. Every playoff team in the 1980's had HOF QBs and then some. What you have now are a bunch of scrubs for the most part, that are more products of the college system they were in before they were drafted. JC is definitely an above average QB in a league that is filled with scrubs or above average QBs, but not good enough to garner the title of franchise QB. I do not expect any of the glitzy QBs coming out of college to make it in the pros, as they are all system QBs on powerhouse teams that truly did not face too much competition in their respective conferences. Big 12 is a joke for defensive play and the Gators only real competiton all year was Bama and look what happened. Bradford is going to get crushed, McCoy will be reduced to Leinhart's status, and Teebow is overrated period. Clausen is a big question mark for me, but ND QBs have sucked in the NFL after Joey T left the game.

12-29-2009, 08:40 AM	#24
doughtydoubter Impact Rookie Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: the glorious city of DC Posts: 696	Re: Franchise Quarterbacks You know who i like seiously as a potential qb draft pick? Jake Locker.

12-29-2009, 09:00 AM	#25
SolidSnake84 The Starter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Stephens City, VA Posts: 1,716	Re: Franchise Quarterbacks I dont think franchise QBs are going away for good, but i agree with that poster somewhat. Teams aren't going to want a franchise QB as much as they will want someone who can just run the offense from year to year. With the new salary cap rules, this may be born out of necessity. I just see a team keeping a QB for 3 or 4 years instead of 10-12..... __________________ Time to nut up or shut up

12-29-2009, 09:07 AM	#26
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,636	Re: Franchise Quarterbacks What new cap rules? With the way the league has shifted to more of a passing league, I find this take that franchise QBs are going away to be laughable, frankly. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

12-29-2009, 09:15 AM	#27
SolidSnake84 The Starter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Stephens City, VA Posts: 1,716	Re: Franchise Quarterbacks i was talking about the rumored new cap rules...that will go in place after this season...allegedly. Won't this limit the big signings and set aside how much a rookie can be given?? thats all i'm saying. __________________ Time to nut up or shut up

12-29-2009, 09:20 AM	#28
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,636	Re: Franchise Quarterbacks What are the rumored new cap rules?? __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

12-29-2009, 12:18 PM	#30
SolidSnake84 The Starter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Stephens City, VA Posts: 1,716	Re: Franchise Quarterbacks So far all I have heard of is the draft becoming more valuable and free agency not meaning as much...That gives me the impression that a team could get themselves a good QB through the draft every 5 or 6 years instead of turning to free agency to fill holes... __________________ Time to nut up or shut up

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Franchise Quarterbacks

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