Shanahan The New Head Coach Of the Redskins

Mattyk · 01-06-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

The Cowher thing isnt the big deal here - the big deal is that Snyder is still running the show and nothing has changed. If Snyder wasn't going to be involved, Shanahan would have had the title of Team President. Hence my comment about different people / same story.

Its clearly evident that Snyder wanted Shanahan all along. Shanahan approved of Allen so Snyder put on a pretense of changing his ways by hiring a "real GM" and letting him make all the football decisions. But we don't have a real GM. Like Vinny before him, Allen is just carrying out Snyder's bidding. If Allen were a "real GM," he would have interviewed multiple head coaching candidates. But Snyder wanted Shanahan so that's the only person who was "interviewed."

Everyone can celebrate all they want now, but time will prove that Snyder hasn't changed one bit. It'll be 2001 all over again.

I wouldn't get too hung up on titles.

Who's to say Allen's first choice wasn't also Shanahan?

GM does not always = main decision maker. There are plenty of GMs around the league that are involved in the decison making process of their clubs, but are not the end all voice.

Mattyk · 01-06-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Shanahan is the coach, for better or worse. My issue is with the entire hiring process (which clearly showed Snyder selected the coach, not the GM) and his title - the same one vinny used to have. To me, its very telling that neither Shanahan or Allen have a Team President Title. No matter what is said in press conferences, Snyder is reserving final say for himself and he'll be just as involved as ever.

I've seen nothing to indicate that Snyder has final say over anything. Knowing how Shanahan operates, I highly doubt he would come here under those circumstances.

The fact that Allen and Shanahan both have the Exec. VP title only indicates to me they will be working together.

Paintrain · 01-06-2010, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Shanahan is the coach, for better or worse. My issue is with the entire hiring process (which clearly showed Snyder selected the coach, not the GM) and his title - the same one vinny used to have. To me, its very telling that neither Shanahan or Allen have a Team President Title. No matter what is said in press conferences, Snyder is reserving final say for himself and he'll be just as involved as ever.

I'm pretty sure when Gibbs retired he retained the Team President title but as Matty said titles are irrelevant.

So are you implying that if your favorite, Cowher, was being hired and introduced today that you'd have a different opinion of the 'process'? You're all over the place with your quarrels with the hire. First it was Shananhan was nothing without Elway, then it was his record, now it's the process.

Are you a sommelier because you sure seem to know a lot about whine.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-06-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I wouldn't get too hung up on titles.

Who's to say Allen's first choice wasn't also Shanahan?

GM does not always = main decision maker. There are plenty of GMs around the league that are involved in the decison making process of their clubs, but are not the end all voice.

I'm sure it was his first choice. The only reason Allen was hired is because thats what Snyder and Shanahan had already worked out. I'm sure Allen had no freedom to hire anyone else. Shanahan will definitely be a more successful coach than Zorn. There's no denying it. But the fundamental change we'd all hoped would happen to our organization didnt happen. For the life of me, i can't understand how so many redskins fans are buying that it has. Mike Wilbon, Mark Maske, and Rick Snider aren't buying it and neither am I.

Don't beleive the hype.

Rick Snider: When it comes to Snyder backing down, don't believe the hype | Washington Examiner

Paintrain · 01-06-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

This is a classic rebound choice. After a coach with little experience and control DS hires a coach with a ton of experience who exerts much more control. Kind of like when he hired Gibbs after the OBC.

DS didnt fail to make the obvious choice with lots of name recognition and I hope it works out. My only concern is Shanny's lack of success without a QB named Elway. Hopefully that problem wont follow him to DC.

You mean the lack of success of going to the playoffs with Gus Frerotte, Brian Griese and Jake Plummer? Yeah, dude was terrible with QB's. I hope he hires a competent QB coach. There was a guy out in Seattle a couple of years ago, Zorn I think. Anyone know what happened to him?

Mattyk · 01-06-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'm sure it was his first choice. The only reason Allen was hired is because thats what Snyder and Shanahan had already worked out. I'm sure Allen had no freedom to hire anyone else. Shanahan will definitely be a more successful coach than Zorn. There's no denying it. But the fundamental change we'd all hoped would happen to our organization didnt happen. For the life of me, i can't understand how so many redskins fans are buying that it has. Mike Wilbon, Mark Maske, and Rick Snider aren't buying it and neither am I.

Don't beleive the hype.

Rick Snider: When it comes to Snyder backing down, don't believe the hype | Washington Examiner

I'm glad you're so sure of everything.

Of course there's room for doubt, but I'd prefer to see or hear some hardcore proof to back up these claims that Snyder is still calling all the shots. Snider's article is a little too cynical for my taste, he has a pretty well documented anti-Snyder bias to boot.

Paintrain · 01-06-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'm sure it was his first choice. The only reason Allen was hired is because thats what Snyder and Shanahan had already worked out. I'm sure Allen had no freedom to hire anyone else. Shanahan will definitely be a more successful coach than Zorn. There's no denying it. But the fundamental change we'd all hoped would happen to our organization didnt happen. For the life of me, i can't understand how so many redskins fans are buying that it has. Mike Wilbon, Mark Maske, and Rick Snider aren't buying it and neither am I.

Don't beleive the hype.

Rick Snider: When it comes to Snyder backing down, don't believe the hype | Washington Examiner

So if Shanahan would have decided at the 11th hour that he changed his mind and didn't want to come to DC would Allen have been fired?

It's not a matter of 'believing the hype' but the past 3 weeks have been a departure from business as usual under Snyder. It's a far cry from 'if it's not broke don't fix it' to Snyder taking responsibility and apologizing 3 times since October. I understand cynicism but there's a fine line between that and just being a negative nancy.

Monksdown · 01-06-2010, 10:06 AM

I for one am glad we've got an experienced head coach and successfull GM now guiding our ship. I don't know the man, and neither do any of you, but you really need to back off of blaming Dan Snyder for everything. I wonder how many of you would relinquish most of the control of a billion dollar company that are heavily vested in. It's unrealistic to think that Snyder will ever be out of the picture when it comes to spending HIS money. The good news is that he's finally surrounded himself with a supporting cast that is talented, experienced, and currently relevant to the NFL(ala, not Joe Gibbs). Good management surrounds itself with good people. And now that he has shaken loose of his professional relationship with Cerrato, i feel more confident that he's aware of it.

Stop asking Snyder to stay out of his own business. It's a futile complaint, that will continue to persist i know. I just wish there weren't so many of you that thought it was realistic. Get over it, let's move on and accept his involvement. Here's a novel idea, let's support Dan Snyder with more than our dollars. I am going to try to trust and beleive that a fellow Redskins fan(the owner), wants to win possibly even more so than i do.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-06-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I'm pretty sure when Gibbs retired he retained the Team President title but as Matty said titles are irrelevant.

So are you implying that if your favorite, Cowher, was being hired and introduced today that you'd have a different opinion of the 'process'? You're all over the place with your quarrels with the hire. First it was Shananhan was nothing without Elway, then it was his record, now it's the process.

Are you a sommelier because you sure seem to know a lot about whine.

If Cowher had been hired i'd be happier with the head coaching selection, but just as dismayed at the hiring process and the front office structure. as ive said, my gripe isnt the hire itself, its how the process played out and what that tells us about who's really running the show.

as far as being "all over the place," i apologize for not putting all my gripes in one post at the same time. unfortunately, i could not see the future and know in advance what new information would become available and reveal. i'm sure in the days and months ahead, when we start hearing rumblings about snyder meddling and butting heads with shanahan, i'll have even more to complain about. Snyder may have fooled you, but he hasn't fooled me.

Mattyk · 01-06-2010, 10:12 AM

Player reactions:

washingtonpost.com

Fletcher sums it up well:

Quote:

"Being able to add a two-time Super Bowl-winning head coach, it's phenomenal," middle linebacker London Fletcher, a defensive captain, said while attending the Washington Capitals' game at Verizon Center. "He commands respect from the players right away. . . . He instantly becomes the face of the franchise."

Paintrain · 01-06-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If Cowher had been hired i'd be happier with the head coaching selection, but just as dismayed at the hiring process and the front office structure. as ive said, my gripe isnt the hire itself, its how the process played out and what that tells us about who's really running the show.

as far as being "all over the place," i apologize for not putting all my gripes in one post at the same time. unfortunately, i could not see the future and know in advance what new information would become available and reveal. i'm sure in the days and months ahead, when we start hearing rumblings about snyder meddling and butting heads with shanahan, i'll have even more to complain about. Snyder may have fooled you, but he hasn't fooled me.

So you couldn't see the future in advance but you are sure that in the days and months ahead we will start to hear rumblings about Snyder meddling and butting heads. Is that a power you can turn on and off?

Mattyk · 01-06-2010, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If Cowher had been hired i'd be happier with the head coaching selection, but just as dismayed at the hiring process and the front office structure. as ive said, my gripe isnt the hire itself, its how the process played out and what that tells us about who's really running the show.

as far as being "all over the place," i apologize for not putting all my gripes in one post at the same time. unfortunately, i could not see the future and know in advance what new information would become available and reveal. i'm sure in the days and months ahead, when we start hearing rumblings about snyder meddling and butting heads with shanahan, i'll have even more to complain about. Snyder may have fooled you, but he hasn't fooled me.

Did he meddle and butt heads with Gibbs when he was here?

I think we'll have a similar situation with Allen/Shanahan. These are two guys he trusts and already has established relationships with. I think these are also guys that Snyder looks up to, and he knows his place with them.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-06-2010, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So if Shanahan would have decided at the 11th hour that he changed his mind and didn't want to come to DC would Allen have been fired?

Actually, thats a distinct possibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintrain

It's not a matter of 'believing the hype' but the past 3 weeks have been a departure from business as usual under Snyder. It's a far cry from 'if it's not broke don't fix it' to Snyder taking responsibility and apologizing 3 times since October. I understand cynicism but there's a fine line between that and just being a negative nancy.

I guess thats the difference - you're taking everything that's been said at face value. I was skeptical and every day there's new information that reinforces my skepticism. Are the skins better now than they were a month ago - yes. Shanahan's a better coach than Zorn. Is Allen a better GM than Cerrato? In most areas - yes. However we still don't have a proven personnel guy making player decisions. Allen's draft record (Tampa Bay only - he had nothing to do with the draft in Oakland) is worse than Vinnys. Shanahan's is very good offensively and very poor defensively. In the short term, thats fine - our offense needs the most work now anyways. However, in the long term, our defense is going to decline. we'll have a team thats probably about as talented overall as the one we have now, just better coached. And it will only last as long as Allen can keep Snyder and Shanahan from butting heads.

freddyg12 · 01-06-2010, 10:21 AM

The Snider (ironic name) article makes some good points, but it's obviously opinion and conjecture. Of course Snyder is going to be involved in personel decisions, to me it's just a matter of how & when.

I can see where the cynicism comes from given the team's past, but he didn't even mention Denver's history under Mike S. Take a look at Shanahan's work in Denver. They were one of the few teams that spent $ on par w/the Skins. So to me, there is cause for concern that Snyder has only changed the faces around him, but not the way of doing biz.

I can easily see how this could be 2000,2004 or 2006 all over again, but w/different people, Allen & Shanny, involved. HOpefully, Allen's impact will be to curtail the big signings. From past experience it appears Shanny isn't opposed to throwing money at the players he wants.

Paintrain · 01-06-2010, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Actually, thats a distinct possibility.

Wow. I'd call that a stretch, but calling that a stretch in itself is a stretch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I guess thats the difference - you're taking everything that's been said at face value. I was skeptical and every day there's new information that reinforces my skepticism. Are the skins better now than they were a month ago - yes. Shanahan's a better coach than Zorn. Is Allen a better GM than Cerrato? In most areas - yes. However we still don't have a proven personnel guy making player decisions. Allen's draft record (Tampa Bay only - he had nothing to do with the draft in Oakland) is worse than Vinnys. Shanahan's is very good offensively and very poor defensively. In the short term, thats fine - our offense needs the most work now anyways. However, in the long term, our defense is going to decline. we'll have a team thats probably about as talented overall as the one we have now, just better coached. And it will only last as long as Allen can keep Snyder and Shanahan from butting heads.

Well I guess it's just a difference in personality and perspective. I'd rather trust the evidence I see and give the benefit of the doubt than view everything in a skeptical light and anticipate the worst.

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01-06-2010, 10:06 AM	#128
Monksdown Robert Griffin III Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 32 Posts: 1,495	Re: Shanahan The New Head Coach Of the Redskins I for one am glad we've got an experienced head coach and successfull GM now guiding our ship. I don't know the man, and neither do any of you, but you really need to back off of blaming Dan Snyder for everything. I wonder how many of you would relinquish most of the control of a billion dollar company that are heavily vested in. It's unrealistic to think that Snyder will ever be out of the picture when it comes to spending HIS money. The good news is that he's finally surrounded himself with a supporting cast that is talented, experienced, and currently relevant to the NFL(ala, not Joe Gibbs). Good management surrounds itself with good people. And now that he has shaken loose of his professional relationship with Cerrato, i feel more confident that he's aware of it. Stop asking Snyder to stay out of his own business. It's a futile complaint, that will continue to persist i know. I just wish there weren't so many of you that thought it was realistic. Get over it, let's move on and accept his involvement. Here's a novel idea, let's support Dan Snyder with more than our dollars. I am going to try to trust and beleive that a fellow Redskins fan(the owner), wants to win possibly even more so than i do. __________________ Robert Griffin III

01-06-2010, 10:21 AM	#134
freddyg12 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,540	Re: Shanahan The New Head Coach Of the Redskins The Snider (ironic name) article makes some good points, but it's obviously opinion and conjecture. Of course Snyder is going to be involved in personel decisions, to me it's just a matter of how & when. I can see where the cynicism comes from given the team's past, but he didn't even mention Denver's history under Mike S. Take a look at Shanahan's work in Denver. They were one of the few teams that spent $ on par w/the Skins. So to me, there is cause for concern that Snyder has only changed the faces around him, but not the way of doing biz. I can easily see how this could be 2000,2004 or 2006 all over again, but w/different people, Allen & Shanny, involved. HOpefully, Allen's impact will be to curtail the big signings. From past experience it appears Shanny isn't opposed to throwing money at the players he wants.

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Shanahan The New Head Coach Of the Redskins

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