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Old 01-17-2010, 01:37 AM   #31
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Re: Lewis & Reed

I get choked up when I think about our beloved Sean Taylor. What a shame!
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:31 AM   #32
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Re: Lewis & Reed

ST would've been up there with Reed for sure...

Just to point out one thing, Ray Ray (by his own admission) didn't do shit until they drafted Ngata to replace Siragusa and Sam Adams. He credits the solid DT's with allowing him to play and dominate in his style. I think Lewis was blessed with a system that Marvin Lewis installed, that he mastered and was able to adapt to suit his strengths. Remember he isn't exactly a superstar in coverage. This meant that he had a GM, various coaching staffs, and an ownership structure that were willing to build around him and to allow him to be a field general of the defense. That type of freedom and support is rare for other LB's around the league. Urlacher has/had some elements of that but even his word doesn't hold the clout that Ray's does in B'more. Ozzie went out and drafted the guys to address positions that Ray Lewis personally (and publicly) lobbied for. Those guys turned out to be studs too (one after the other). I don't think LT had that level of support on and off the field throughout his career.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:33 AM   #33
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Re: Lewis & Reed

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Originally Posted by LandrySlice View Post
I get choked up when I think about our beloved Sean Taylor. What a shame!
One day i was off work and the wife and kids were gone. I went to youtube and watched a few ST vids.... waterworks started and i had to turn it off. RIP #21
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:36 AM   #34
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Re: Lewis & Reed

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Originally Posted by Rajmahal33 View Post
ST would've been up there with Reed for sure...

Just to point out one thing, Ray Ray (by his own admission) didn't do shit until they drafted Ngata to replace Siragusa and Sam Adams. He credits the solid DT's with allowing him to play and dominate in his style. I think Lewis was blessed with a system that Marvin Lewis installed, that he mastered and was able to adapt to suit his strengths. Remember he isn't exactly a superstar in coverage. This meant that he had a GM, various coaching staffs, and an ownership structure that were willing to build around him and to allow him to be a field general of the defense. That type of freedom and support is rare for other LB's around the league. Urlacher has/had some elements of that but even his word doesn't hold the clout that Ray's does in B'more. Ozzie went out and drafted the guys to address positions that Ray Lewis personally (and publicly) lobbied for. Those guys turned out to be studs too (one after the other). I don't think LT had that level of support on and off the field throughout his career.
I remember the draft when they selected Ngata, didnt Ray pretty much give the FO an altimatum like draft this guy or i retire?
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:06 AM   #35
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Re: Lewis & Reed

I strated watching football in 1972 . LT and Lott IMO were as good as it gets . Reed is awesome , I also think Troy P. < Steelers > is top notch . Lott was a pro bowl CB and FS ... had we drafted Lott in '81 , then D. Green '83 ... I say we have 1 more V. Lombardi trophy siiting @ Redskins park . 53 is right , K. Houston was awesome , a 100% HOF'er !! Butkus , Lambert and Singletary were mean mothers , I would guess that R. Lewis should be talked about as all time greats . Sadly we will not see ST going into the HOF as a 9-10 time pro bowler .
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:49 AM   #36
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Re: Lewis & Reed

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Originally Posted by Rajmahal33 View Post
ST would've been up there with Reed for sure...

Just to point out one thing, Ray Ray (by his own admission) didn't do shit until they drafted Ngata to replace Siragusa and Sam Adams. He credits the solid DT's with allowing him to play and dominate in his style. I think Lewis was blessed with a system that Marvin Lewis installed, that he mastered and was able to adapt to suit his strengths. Remember he isn't exactly a superstar in coverage. This meant that he had a GM, various coaching staffs, and an ownership structure that were willing to build around him and to allow him to be a field general of the defense. That type of freedom and support is rare for other LB's around the league. Urlacher has/had some elements of that but even his word doesn't hold the clout that Ray's does in B'more. Ozzie went out and drafted the guys to address positions that Ray Lewis personally (and publicly) lobbied for. Those guys turned out to be studs too (one after the other). I don't think LT had that level of support on and off the field throughout his career.
So you're saying that Lewis, while great, owes a lot of his success to several other factors that fell into place for him? OK, but my question is, how does that make him different than nearly every other great player in the history of football? No man is an island in the ultimate team sport.

And I think it's tough to argue that LT didn't have a solid situation himself. He played on historically great teams.
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:21 AM   #37
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Re: Lewis & Reed

L.T is easily the best linebacker that i have seen. Lott and Reed are 2 totally different players. and with the way the rules are right now, Lott would dramatically have to change his game. he played on toughness, and physicality. all of his helmet to helmet stuff is now illegal. Reed is a down right play-maker. i would say that Woodson was the closest thing to Reed.
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:33 AM   #38
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Re: Lewis & Reed

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Originally Posted by Rajmahal33 View Post
ST would've been up there with Reed for sure...

Just to point out one thing, Ray Ray (by his own admission) didn't do shit until they drafted Ngata to replace Siragusa and Sam Adams. He credits the solid DT's with allowing him to play and dominate in his style. I think Lewis was blessed with a system that Marvin Lewis installed, that he mastered and was able to adapt to suit his strengths. Remember he isn't exactly a superstar in coverage. This meant that he had a GM, various coaching staffs, and an ownership structure that were willing to build around him and to allow him to be a field general of the defense. That type of freedom and support is rare for other LB's around the league. Urlacher has/had some elements of that but even his word doesn't hold the clout that Ray's does in B'more. Ozzie went out and drafted the guys to address positions that Ray Lewis personally (and publicly) lobbied for. Those guys turned out to be studs too (one after the other). I don't think LT had that level of support on and off the field throughout his career.
Ngata wasn't drafted until 2006. Ray was drafted in !996. To say he "didn't do shit" until Ngata got there is just wrong.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:00 PM   #39
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Re: Lewis & Reed

Looks like Ed Reed is mulling retirement. He's dealing with a bad neck injury.

Baltimore Ravens safety Ed Reed unsure if he'll return next season; receiver Derrick Mason, too - ESPN
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:09 AM   #40
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Re: Lewis & Reed

As long as we're talking about all-time dominant defenders, let's not forget the Minister of Defense, Reggie White. For my money, White was every bit as dominant as LT, and he did it getting double teamed nearly every play, whereas Belichick often moved LT around to exploit matchups. White and LT are the two most disruptive defensive players that I've seen over 35+ years of avid NFL viewing.

Regarding the original post, Lewis is a top 3 MLB all-time (with Butkus certainly in that group). Reed is the greatest safety of all time IMO.

Last edited by SouperMeister; 01-19-2010 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:29 AM   #41
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Re: Lewis & Reed

Lewis and Reed are certainly in the conversation for the best ever at their positions, but solid arguments can be made for a lot of guys.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:25 PM   #42
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Re: Lewis & Reed

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Talk about underrated. Take a look at London Fletcher's stats compared to Ray Lewis. He had better stats in 2009, and still didn't make a pro-bowl. Nor is he ever mentioned as one of the premier players in the NFL, even-though he's out performed the best Linebacker in the NFL.

Ray Lewis Stats - Baltimore Ravens - ESPN

London Fletcher Stats - Washington Redskins - ESPN
Certain things you just can't measure statiscally. London Fletcher just isn't in Ray Lewis' category. There's no other way around that. And that's not to slight London, because a lot of good linebackers aren't in Lewis' category.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:35 PM   #43
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Re: Lewis & Reed

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Ngata wasn't drafted until 2006. Ray was drafted in !996. To say he "didn't do shit" until Ngata got there is just wrong.
Read it again he said he didnt do shit after Siragusa and Adams left until they replaced them with Ngata. So thats from 2001 to 2006.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:50 PM   #44
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Re: Lewis & Reed

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Certain things you just can't measure statiscally. London Fletcher just isn't in Ray Lewis' category. There's no other way around that. And that's not to slight London, because a lot of good linebackers aren't in Lewis' category.
I completely disagree. Not to slight Ray Lewis but I believe that he and Fletcher are in the same category. There are only 2 differences between the 2 men. The first is that hands down Ray Lewis has more interceptions to his name. The second is that Ray Lewis played for one of the most dominating defenses of all time and won superbowl MVP with that team. He has always had a better supporting cast that always keeps him clean. Ever since the Superbowl he has always been in the limelight with his pregame pump up ritual and constant television interviews on major media outlets. Ray Lewis could lay a goose egg next season and still get more pro bowl votes and television interviews than Fletcher just from the notoriety, all because of the fact that he was a Superbowl MVP.
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:50 PM   #45
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Re: Lewis & Reed

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I completely disagree. Not to slight Ray Lewis but I believe that he and Fletcher are in the same category. There are only 2 differences between the 2 men. The first is that hands down Ray Lewis has more interceptions to his name. The second is that Ray Lewis played for one of the most dominating defenses of all time and won superbowl MVP with that team. He has always had a better supporting cast that always keeps him clean. Ever since the Superbowl he has always been in the limelight with his pregame pump up ritual and constant television interviews on major media outlets. Ray Lewis could lay a goose egg next season and still get more pro bowl votes and television interviews than Fletcher just from the notoriety, all because of the fact that he was a Superbowl MVP.
You crazy.
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