Offensive Lines in the Playoffs

WaldSkins · 01-18-2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

But but.....he was cut for a reason. Whats the reason exactly? I don't know but it has to be a good one.

We wanted to shore up the D-line with Renaldo Wynn

Daseal · 01-18-2010, 09:57 PM

With the zone blocking coming to DC, doesn't that take Okung out of the picture for us?

Slingin Sammy 33 · 01-18-2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

There are multiple ways to build a good offensive line.

Way #1: Spend high draft picks (Rounds 1 and 2) on offensive linemen, develop them and hope they don't blow out a knee.

Way #2: Look for "hidden gems" in the laste rounds or in the UFA ranks, develop them and hope they don't blow out a knee.

Way #3: Draft or get via UFA two - - or even three - - good OL and then sign via free agency a couple of Pro-Bowlers none of whom blows out a knee.

Now, tell me which of these three avenues to a GOOD offensive line the Redskins have followed over the past decade? The answer would be Way #2 - - except for the minor problem that the Redskins' hidden gems seem to have turned out to be Fools' Gold!

The Skins tried "Way #2" - - - but the folks who did the evaluation of the potential "hidden gems" seem to have been wrong close to 100% of the time. [If you want to argue with that, please look at the 2009 roster and tell me which of the "hidden gems" played like a "real" NFL quality OL for 16 games or so. After you can't find one, just admit that the evaluation process was probably faulty from the beginning.]

Or maybe it wasn't the evaluators' fault; maybe their decisions were overriden by some goofs in the FO at draft time or at UFA signing time or at the time when it became obvious that they had to sift through the culls of other teams.

Or maybe it was the coaches' fault.

Or maybe - - to use a couple of the classic whipping boys of the Warpath - - it was Mike Florio's and Jason LaCanfora's fault...

or maybe the Redskins acquired top level FA talent (Rabach, Thomas, Dock) and re-signed their own (Samuels, Jansen) that didn't last as long as anticipated due to unforseen injuries to players who were previously pretty injury free.

Redskins starting OL Game 1 2009:
LT - Chris Samuels, Rd. 1, over pick # 3
LG - Derrick Dockery, Rd. 3, pick # 81 (let go in FA because contract demand was too high, returned as a FA with reasonable contract)
C - Casey Rabach, Rd. 3, pick # 92 (signed as FA in 2005)
RG - Randy Thomas, Rd. 2, pick # 57 (signed as FA in 2003)
RT - Stephon Heyer, UFA

Give the FO bashing a rest.

We get it, the OL broke down, bad decisions were made. Vinny was fired, Zorn and the rest of the coaching staff are gone. Let's move on.

Fast-forward to the present....95% of the folks here approve the Shanahan hiring, a strong majority approved of Bruce Allen. As I've said before if $hit goes South I don't want to hear those who agreed with these hirings bashing Snyder.

and yes all the problems can be traced to Florio and JLC. They suck.

The Goat · 01-18-2010, 11:13 PM

I find the NO line especially impressive because somehow w/o using high draft picks or big FA acquisitions the unit performs at a very high level. The evaluation and coaching there is working!

Beemnseven · 01-19-2010, 09:51 AM

Speaking of knees getting blown out -- I was watching a little bit of NFL Replay last night of the game between the Jets and Colts a few weeks ago. On one of the plays, the Jets RT Damien Woody got his knee rolled up when Freeney sacked Mark Sanchez. Dan Dierdorf said Woody was lucky to be able to walk off the field on his own power. Well, Woody is still playing now.

That's an example of pure luck -- the football gods shining down on the Jets; because if it were the Redskins, recent history says that a similar play to anyone of our linemen would have meant a season-ending injury. Perhaps even career ending.

tryfuhl · 01-19-2010, 02:08 PM

So 2 teams with nearly all high picks and 2 teams with nearly all low picks

I think that what we've learned is just that you need good linemen and it doesn't matter where you got them from

Mattyk · 01-19-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

So 2 teams with nearly all high picks and 2 teams with nearly all low picks

I think that what we've learned is just that you need good linemen and it doesn't matter where you got them from

Pretty much. And when you ignore an old and often injured OL group for too many years, you end up 4-12.

sportscurmudgeon · 01-19-2010, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Pretty much. And when you ignore an old and often injured OL group for too many years, you end up 4-12.

Matty:

The OL at the start of 2009 was aging at 3 positions (LT, C, RG) and had seen "spotty performance" in the past from its RT. [I'm trying to be polite here; Stephon Heyer may have been the worst starting RT in the league in Week 1. If not the worst, then surely in the bottom 5.]

The OL backups on the roster at the beginning of the season just weren't very good players. That is called "bad roster assembly". That is the reason the Redskins will have such a high draft pick in April 2010.

Dirtbag59 · 01-19-2010, 02:55 PM

Indianapolis Colts, New York Jets, New Orleans Saints, Minnesota Vikings have the four best offensive lines in the NFL -- that's why they're all one win away from the Super Bowl - ESPN

Looks like Ruhskins was ahead of the curve.

44Deezel · 01-19-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Since we've been talking about the Jets offensive line, I was curious to see how the playoff teams built their lines. And I wanted to point out three out of the four offensive lines.

Minnesota Vikings
LT Bryant McKinnie – 1st rd pick in 2002 (Pro Bowler)
LG Steve Hutchinson – 1st rd pick by SEA in 2001 (acquired by Minny as FA in 2006; Pro Bowler)
C John Sullivan – 6th round/187th pick in 2008
RG Anthony Herrera – Undrafted FA in 2005
RT Phil Loadholt – 2nd round/54th pick in 2009

New Orleans Saints
LT Jermon Bushrod – 4th rd pick in 2007
LG Carl Nicks – 5th rd pick in 2008
C Jonathan Goodwin – 5th rd pick 2002 (acquired by N.O. in 2006)
RG Jahri Evans – 4th rd pick 2006 (Pro Bowler)
RT Jon Stinchcomb – 2nd rd pick 2003 (Pro Bowler)

New York Jets
LT D’Brickashaw Ferguson – 1st rd pick 2006 (Pro Bowler)
LG Alan Faneca – 1st rd pick 1998 by PIT (acquired by Jets as FA in 2008; Pro Bowler)
C Nick Mangold – 1st rd pick 2006 (Pro Bowler)
LG Brandon Moore – Undrafted FA in 2002
RT Damien Woody – 1st rd pick 1999 by NE (acquired by Jets as FA in 2008)

I like the way the Jets built their lines, especially acquiring players like Ferguson and Mangold. All of these teams have had success running the ball (Rushing rankings: Jets #4, N.O. #6, and Minny #13), and have done a good job protecting their QB (Fewest sacks rankings: N.O.#4, Jets #10, and Minny tied for #15).

Proof that there's more than one way to skin the cat. The Skins can still re-build the O line even if they don't use the #4 pick on an O-linemen. Free agency and later round draft picks is just as viable an approach. And I'll take the QBs from 3 out of the 4 in a heartbeat as well - Favre, Manning, Brees. Rivers would be there if it weren't for his girlified kicker.

Ruhskins · 01-19-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Proof that there's more than one way to skin the cat. The Skins can still re-build the O line even if they don't use the #4 pick on an O-linemen. Free agency and later round draft picks is just as viable an approach. And I'll take the QBs from 3 out of the 4 in a heartbeat as well - Favre, Manning, Brees. Rivers would be there if it weren't for his girlified kicker.

Well but our situation is now much closer to the Jets, and they used two first-rounders on their offensive line, and were able to develop it to a point that a rookie QB managing the game has taken them deep into the playoffs.

Redskin Warrior · 01-19-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Proof that there's more than one way to skin the cat. The Skins can still re-build the O line even if they don't use the #4 pick on an O-linemen. Free agency and later round draft picks is just as viable an approach. And I'll take the QBs from 3 out of the 4 in a heartbeat as well - Favre, Manning, Brees. Rivers would be there if it weren't for his girlified kicker.

True that also means that your scouting department is top notch as well but the Skins problems are that in the last 5 years they only drafted TWO o-linemen period both are non-starters at that and one no longer with us. I feel ya tho i think it will come down to Shanahan & Allen's expectations & strategy. Are they willing to rebuild for a couple of years or win now.

tryfuhl · 01-19-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Pretty much. And when you ignore an old and often injured OL group for too many years, you end up 4-12.

No doubt. I wouldn't mind seeing some other stats on the matter such as ages.. how the teams acquired them if not drafted by them.. how long they've played with each other, etc and to see if there's more of a telling story there

but yeah.. oft-injured guys that are getting older and declining definitely isn't the most solid foundation.. we had plenty of the late picks and undrafted, but they definitely weren't starter quality and maybe only serviceable as backups

Ruhskins · 01-19-2010, 10:56 PM

I hear that Gregg Easterbrook got the idea for his latest column from my thread about offensive lines in the playoffs. LOL.

Indianapolis Colts, New York Jets, New Orleans Saints, Minnesota Vikings have the four best offensive lines in the NFL -- that's why they're all one win away from the Super Bowl - ESPN

I should get royalties from him...well at least for the first paragraph.

53Fan · 01-19-2010, 11:07 PM

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;656791]I hear that Gregg Easterbrook got the idea for his latest column from my thread about offensive lines in the playoffs. LOL.

Indianapolis Colts, New York Jets, New Orleans Saints, Minnesota Vikings have the four best offensive lines in the NFL -- that's why they're all one win away from the Super Bowl - ESPN

I should get royalties from him...well at least for the first paragraph.[/QUOTE]

You're the one who brought it to our attention Ruhskins. I don't know about any royalties but how about a big thumbs up? :thumb:

01-18-2010, 09:57 PM	#17
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 30 Posts: 8,072	Re: Offensive Lines in the Playoffs With the zone blocking coming to DC, doesn't that take Okung out of the picture for us? __________________ Best. Player. Available.

01-18-2010, 11:13 PM	#19
The Goat Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,044	Re: Offensive Lines in the Playoffs I find the NO line especially impressive because somehow w/o using high draft picks or big FA acquisitions the unit performs at a very high level. The evaluation and coaching there is working! __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes he eats you.

01-19-2010, 09:51 AM	#20
Beemnseven Fighting off The Crazies Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Virginia Beach Age: 39 Posts: 5,280	Re: Offensive Lines in the Playoffs Speaking of knees getting blown out -- I was watching a little bit of NFL Replay last night of the game between the Jets and Colts a few weeks ago. On one of the plays, the Jets RT Damien Woody got his knee rolled up when Freeney sacked Mark Sanchez. Dan Dierdorf said Woody was lucky to be able to walk off the field on his own power. Well, Woody is still playing now. That's an example of pure luck -- the football gods shining down on the Jets; because if it were the Redskins, recent history says that a similar play to anyone of our linemen would have meant a season-ending injury. Perhaps even career ending.

01-19-2010, 02:08 PM	#21
tryfuhl Gamebreaker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Waldorf, MD Age: 29 Posts: 12,512	Re: Offensive Lines in the Playoffs So 2 teams with nearly all high picks and 2 teams with nearly all low picks I think that what we've learned is just that you need good linemen and it doesn't matter where you got them from

01-19-2010, 02:55 PM	#24
Dirtbag59 Naega jeil jal naga Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland Age: 27 Posts: 13,978	Re: Offensive Lines in the Playoffs Indianapolis Colts, New York Jets, New Orleans Saints, Minnesota Vikings have the four best offensive lines in the NFL -- that's why they're all one win away from the Super Bowl - ESPN Looks like Ruhskins was ahead of the curve. __________________ Flacco is 1337 Fanclub President

01-19-2010, 10:56 PM	#29
Ruhskins Gamebreaker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Columbia, MD Age: 34 Posts: 14,614	Re: Offensive Lines in the Playoffs I hear that Gregg Easterbrook got the idea for his latest column from my thread about offensive lines in the playoffs. LOL. Indianapolis Colts, New York Jets, New Orleans Saints, Minnesota Vikings have the four best offensive lines in the NFL -- that's why they're all one win away from the Super Bowl - ESPN I should get royalties from him...well at least for the first paragraph. __________________ R.I.P. #21 New words created on The Warpath: Rewalsr - Somretimes - Fualt - Jersesy - Itiot - Composetory Afeard - Storgn - Empliment - Gaissn - Saftys - Minnisota Faviort - Hatter - Phsyched - Foof - Heloing - Brutual Stroried Check out this cool local internet radio show Weds 7-9pm: The DC Sports Chat I sense an annoyance in the Force

01-19-2010, 11:07 PM	#30
53Fan Pro Bowl Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Kill Devil Hills, N.C. Posts: 7,360	Re: Offensive Lines in the Playoffs [QUOTE=Ruhskins;656791]I hear that Gregg Easterbrook got the idea for his latest column from my thread about offensive lines in the playoffs. LOL. Indianapolis Colts, New York Jets, New Orleans Saints, Minnesota Vikings have the four best offensive lines in the NFL -- that's why they're all one win away from the Super Bowl - ESPN I should get royalties from him...well at least for the first paragraph.[/QUOTE] You're the one who brought it to our attention Ruhskins. I don't know about any royalties but how about a big thumbs up? :thumb: __________________ "Cautiously And Optimistically... Looking Forward To Change"

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Offensive Lines in the Playoffs

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