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Portis staying?

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Old 01-27-2010, 01:10 PM   #151
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Re: Portis staying?

Free Agent Options:

Leon Washington... is about the same age as Portis and just broke his leg. Provided Portis is cleared from that head bang to play, I think Portis is the better of the two. Portis is far more accomplished and there aren't any other categories where he excels over CP. Leon IS, however, a great #2 back and can be the next Rock since he is younger than Rock and can do special teams, but even so, he's reportedly out to be an number one and make big bucks. He may want just as much as CP.

Willie Parker... Fast Willie is WAY more injury prone than CP and though he's been in about as long his stats are WAY lower than CP in many categories. He's a humungus risk. Unlike Portis, Willie doesn't play injured often, he'll spend more time on our bench than Todd Collins. He's likely to stay in Pit

Chester Taylor... I doubt he's going anywhere. AP is not an every down back. They need someone else to pick up the slack and will, and should, do whatever it takes to keep AP as healthy as they can for as long as they can. He's older than Portis but has fewer miles. He's not as good as Portis at Portis' best, but as portis is now, i think they're arguable in the same boat. If he's out there to grab, it then just depends on money. Still i don't see it as an improvement. He is a beast though

Pierre Thomas... i doubt the saints will let him go, but he is definately not a #1 running ack. He may fit well for Shanahan's scheme though, and he is only 25. IF Portis' is at his best, i don't see Thomas being better. He's better than everyone else on the roster though, as an HB that is. As a receiving option, he's good, but no better than Rock or our young backs.

Ronnie Brown... Seriously? Like he's going anywhere. Miami's gonna keep him.

Jerome Harrison... One awesome game does NOT make a great player. Apart from the Chiefs game he was nothing to shout about. One 100+ game all season

Cadillac... Same boat as Portis on the injuries. He's not 'better' and he only had a pretty good year. I'm just not for trading for a caddy the same year with fewer mileage. If Portis is healthy, he's better than Cadillac healthy.

Mike Bell... Okay... this one is debatable. If the Saints can't keep him after paying for Reggie Bush and maybe Pierre Thomas, then I wouldn't mind Mike Bell coming in. Honestly, i don't see him leaving though and i don't see him putting up 1500+ if the featured back.

Lendale White... dude was pushed asside for a reason. The TItans have a HORSE in Chris Johnson. (holy crap) But White is just #2. a GREAT #2, but still

Everyone else is either old, crappy, or too injury prone for their mediocre stats to even make conversationworthy. The best of the crew above are not going anywhere. There are two above that i honeslty thin would do better than portis if we got them, but they aren't leaving their teams and to name them would only lead to another debate.

Now as for NON-free agent players that Snyder can wag his magic moneywand or trade to get... those scenarios can get pretty goofy and i suggest we not go there or some dork will say "We can trade Portis, Betts, and a draft pick for Adrian Peterson!" or something stupid like that. Please, reasonable options only, and keep in mind, better production in a better system with a better line doesn't make a better runningback. Emmit Smith was arguable a B+ back at best... but given insanly large holes to run through, anyone can be the man. (Barry woulda got 3000 behind that line)

Last edited by Beneil (diehard since 87); 01-27-2010 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:26 PM   #152
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Re: Portis staying?

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Im not going to argue with you. It's pointless. You wont believe me even when i give facts, and i wont believe you even with your 'facts'. Are you the president of the pastor of the church of Portis?

You accuse me of no validity in my argument. F you. I gave you stats and shit just like you did. And i already said in a few pages back, which you obviously didnt read, that I did HATE Portis because of what he's done to the team.I never criticised his past work. I'm not like you..i dont "worship" Portis for his past body of work, and figure he gets a pass for the future.

What do you want from me?? Damn at least Beneil is reasonable. Is being unreasonable a condition of your religion? I'm calling YOU out like you did me. Just admit that you are set in what you know and don't care about any other opinion or fact. Most of this thread is made up of people who feel just like I do...

Maybe there is no clear resolution. Can we just be friends now? How can i get a long with 1,487 other people every day...but you're that one guy that has to be the exception....
Kill the motor Dude! Pipe down a tad. For the record, I am not a huge CP fan and I would not be upset if the team parted ways with him (provided we have a suitabloe alternative). However, I will not discredit what he has meant to this franchise as a player (adding weight, giving up his body to the tune of 300+ carries a year, shortening his own career, etc.) and would love to have him come back if the FO feels like he is in top form for a player of his age/experience. I probably would never want to be buddies with the guy, but I do not mind having a player of his skill set on my team.

I do not think one poor year makes him a piece of shit player. Nor do I think that calling out Seller bad blocking to the coaches (justifiably but not a nice thing to do) warrants his dismissal. I also, like John Thompson and Doc Walker, think that his comments on JC's leadership skills were taken out of context (probably why he called JC that night to explain). It perplexes me that folks are so quick to hate him when those close to him seem to respect him. And as far as the "some of his teammates are fed up" and "that's why he wasn't elected a team captain" arguement.....all I can say is, "Who gives a shit about the captains of a 4-12 team?" Obviously the 'leadership' on the 2009 squad was ineffective at best.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:31 PM   #153
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Re: Portis staying?

I agree with your last points. The team had no leadership from the players OR the coaches.

I havent taken a thing away from Portis' past work, and understand what he has brought to this club...however, i just think his best moments already happened, and we can't bank on him having a future here.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:48 PM   #154
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Re: Portis staying?

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Originally Posted by Beneil (diehard since 87) View Post
Free Agent Options:

Ronnie Brown... Seriously? Like he's going anywhere. Miami's gonna keep him.
LOVE to have Brown, but like you said, why would Miami part ways and keep Williams?
Most all your comments were pretty good, and while some could be debatable, they were close to being right on, so I left them alone...however, the following quote of yours is extremely incorrect:

Quote:
Jerome Harrison... One awesome game does NOT make a great player. Apart from the Chiefs game he was nothing to shout about. One 100+ game all season
Actually he had 4 100 yard+ performances, AND he did it on Cleveland...CLEVELAND!
He only had 5 games where he would have been considered a "starter" in terms of carries, and in 4 of them he reached over 100. (in the other game he did not get to 100 yards, he had only 16 carries and it was vs the stingy Bal defense)
week 4- CIN, 121 yards
week 14- @K.C., 286 yards
week 15- OAK, 148 yards
week 16- JAX, 127 yards

Time to cut Portis and save the money...I would have SERIOUS concerns about our F.O. if they kept Portis given his age and lack of production. Sure he's still servicable, and still blocks well...but he should not be a primary back. The only way I would like to see portis in a skins uni is if he is cut and signs a new contract for a fraction of a fraction of what he makes. Then we draft some young stud and let them fight it out for carries.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:51 PM   #155
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Re: Portis staying?

I don't think we should go after any FA RB's. We have enough experience with CP, Betts, and Rock. Its time to draft a young up and comer. We need to get younger.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:07 PM   #156
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Re: Portis staying?

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
Time to cut Portis and save the money...I would have SERIOUS concerns about our F.O. if they kept Portis given his age and lack of production. Sure he's still servicable, and still blocks well...but he should not be a primary back. The only way I would like to see portis in a skins uni is if he is cut and signs a new contract for a fraction of a fraction of what he makes. Then we draft some young stud and let them fight it out for carries.
Quick correction that cutting Portis wouldn't save money, it would waste it.

Honestly though, the money that we have guaranteed to Portis for 2010 should be considered a sunk cost, and should not be considered in the decision to keep him or cut bait with him. That is to say: "because we owe him 6 million" is not a good reason for keeping him over getting rid of him. But likewise, cutting him doesn't get you that large amount of money back. It still has to be paid.

If we write it off as a sunk cost today in the books, we basically have to make the decision between having Portis on the roster "for free", and having him off the team at the exact same price. If he's one of the best 53 players (or four RBs), we should keep him, otherwise, we should get rid of him and cut him a check.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:10 PM   #157
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Re: Portis staying?

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Originally Posted by Beneil (diehard since 87) View Post
Everyone else is either old, crappy, or too injury prone for their mediocre stats to even make conversationworthy. The best of the crew above are not going anywhere. There are two above that i honeslty thin would do better than portis if we got them, but they aren't leaving their teams and to name them would only lead to another debate.

Now as for NON-free agent players that Snyder can wag his magic moneywand or trade to get... those scenarios can get pretty goofy and i suggest we not go there or some dork will say "We can trade Portis, Betts, and a draft pick for Adrian Peterson!" or something stupid like that. Please, reasonable options only, and keep in mind, better production in a better system with a better line doesn't make a better runningback. Emmit Smith was arguable a B+ back at best... but given insanly large holes to run through, anyone can be the man. (Barry woulda got 3000 behind that line)
I don't understand why we need to be pressed for a feature back and even worst, look for one in free agency. This team will most likely move towards a 2-RB or 3-RB system. We need to find a talented RB in the later rounds, and recent acquisitions by other teams (i.e. Tashard Choice, Shonn Greene) have resulted in success.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:16 PM   #158
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Re: Portis staying?

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Quick correction that cutting Portis wouldn't save money, it would waste it.

Honestly though, the money that we have guaranteed to Portis for 2010 should be considered a sunk cost, and should not be considered in the decision to keep him or cut bait with him. That is to say: "because we owe him 6 million" is not a good reason for keeping him over getting rid of him. But likewise, cutting him doesn't get you that large amount of money back. It still has to be paid.
I'm referring strictly to the cap hit he will cost us for the next two years. Snyder has deep pockets so that money won't matter on an uncapped year.

Quote:
If we write it off as a sunk cost today in the books, we basically have to make the decision between having Portis on the roster "for free", and having him off the team at the exact same price. If he's one of the best 53 players (or four RBs), we should keep him, otherwise, we should get rid of him and cut him a check.
I agree.
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:36 PM   #159
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Re: Portis staying?

Wait, did someone actually say they'd rather keep CP than have Pierre Thomas? Pass whatever you're smoking, man. It's been a rough week, I need a hit.

Thomas has less carries on him in 3 years than CP took in any full season he's played in, and he crushes CP's career ypc -- 5.1 to 4.5 (and by the way, you take out those two years in Denver and CP's career ypc takes a 12% hit. He's logged an avg 4.1ypc since he arrived here.)
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:56 AM   #160
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Re: Portis staying?

One more year for CP.

and screw the mock drafts. Id like O-Line 1st Round, 2nd Round RB, 3rd Round DB/LB or whatever order.
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:08 AM   #161
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Re: Portis staying?

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Wait, did someone actually say they'd rather keep CP than have Pierre Thomas? Pass whatever you're smoking, man. It's been a rough week, I need a hit.

Thomas has less carries on him in 3 years than CP took in any full season he's played in, and he crushes CP's career ypc -- 5.1 to 4.5 (and by the way, you take out those two years in Denver and CP's career ypc takes a 12% hit. He's logged an avg 4.1ypc since he arrived here.)
Relax bro its easy to get YPC when you have Brees balancing the attack.

I dont agree buts its not like Pierre really can match a prime Portis.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:15 PM   #162
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Re: Portis staying?

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Relax bro its easy to get YPC when you have Brees balancing the attack.

I dont agree buts its not like Pierre really can match a prime Portis.
What does a prime Portis have to do with anything? He hasn't been Prime Portis since he got here.

As for it being "easy to get ypc" in New Orleans, I don't know about that... Mike Bell got more carries than Thomas did behind that line this season and his ypc was a Portis-esque 3.8.

Look, I'm not saying Pierre Thomas is The Next Big Thing or anything, but it's pretty obvious that CP has racked up yardage by buying in bulk since he got here, not by running efficiently. You burn the candle at both ends, you pay the price eventually.

All I am saying is I would much rather have a young, low-mileage guy like Thomas in our backfield next year than someone with the warning signs written all over him like Portis.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:33 PM   #163
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Re: Portis staying?

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Relax bro its easy to get YPC when you have Brees balancing the attack.

I dont agree buts its not like Pierre really can match a prime Portis.
dgack already pointed it out, but it needs to be said again...Portis in his prime is long gone. I'd love to sign Barry Sanders in his prime, but that aint happening. Portis has run his course in a skins uni.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:32 AM   #164
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Re: Portis staying?

Dgack and others ned to seriously look at total pictures. If you have an outstanding passing attack, of COURSE you can have a easier chance at the run. If you have a balanced attack, but an awesome line, Yes, you'll have great stats. With Portis' stats, especialy LAST year, were at least 60% of his 300+ carry seasons are behind injured, poorly put together, and jacked up o-lines. THe steelers last superbowl, they had a crappy line too, look at theri running stats. But their receivers can catch, so they had a passing attack. You can't jsut say, "Portis stats are low" and ignore the line. You REALLY can't say that shouldering the load with the amount of carries he had to have is a small feat either. That's called sacrafice and being a team player. I don't care what few comments were taken to heart by everyone BUT his teamates who forgive and have his back. He's a team player and far more durable than given credit for.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:42 AM   #165
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Re: Portis staying?

I find it hard to call Portis a team player, IF you define "team player" as someone who practices as hard as they play, who strives to minimize divisiveness, and who looks at the team goals over individual accomplishment. I think Portis is a self centered player who through his outstanding ability has, over the years lifted the play of the team. Now, though, as age and injuries become legitimately asked questions, he needs to transform his play and attitude to that of a mature superstar. That is what Shanahan spoke of in his introductory press conference, and that is what CP needs to do if he is going to stay here and excel. If he wants to be the center of it all, and not focus on team practice and conditioning, then he ought to find another stage to finish his career.
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