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Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

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Old 01-29-2010, 06:12 PM   #46
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

If you're going to make that assumption you must also ask this question. Did Manning benefit more from having all those receivers or did all those receivers benefit from having Manning at QB? My guess is that it's a fair bit of both so it's really a non point. No QB will be succesful without good teammates. Brady didnt have elite WR's for years but he always had a great O-line that kept him upright for the most part. The ideal situation is to have a good QB with good weapons because every QB falls off to a certain extent without them.
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:50 PM   #47
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

a few of warner's stats or facts

two time nfl mvp
one time superbowl mvp
four time probowl selection
9-4 playoff record
2nd qb in history to start for two different superbowl teams
2nd qb in nfl history to throw for more than 100 tds for two different teams
has a higher completion % than any hof qb in the last 25 years
fastest player to reach 10,000 yds passing
tied dan morino as the fastest to reach 30,000 yards
top 3 passing games in superbowl history
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:54 PM   #48
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

Why Kurt Warner Is NOT a Hall of Famer | Bleacher Report

This article talks about this and to be honest I like Warner and I think he's a good QB. Yes most of the great QBs had good WRs but Warner didn't just have good players around him he had great players that obviously helped. Even with these great players sometimes he still couldn't win as mentioned in the article. He averages 2.03 fumbles/int per start and he has had some great WRs and one of the great RB. Now imagine what his numbers would be if he wasn't blessed with GREAT talent around him? I think he's obviously better than just average which is why even Leinart can't do the same with the same talent around him cause he sucks and Warner is a good QB but I don't think we would be having any conversations of him being a HOF if he didn't have atleast 3-4 WRs that will also be HOF. I think there's a reason he gets benched by every team he plays for and if you look at his numbers he's had only around 5 good years the rest were mediocre-horrible. In my eyes he's not a HOF but I think he's a good QB who looked like a HOF with the talent around him and still sometimes looked bad with the same talent. Just read the article, it's interesting and its hard to ignore the bad parts of his career. I think without the talent around him he'd be ok but no where near where he is but he's a good story...
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:12 PM   #49
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

[QUOTE=Chevy13;659171]...[QUOTE]

do you discredit Montana for having Rice and Taylor? What about Bradshaw?

The Cardinals wouldnt have a playoff win in the last two years if Warner wasn't there.
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:26 PM   #50
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

I am not a stat guy but I saw one on NFL network about Warner that blew me away. Warner is 4th all time in 300 yard passing games. That is just simply amazing considering the amount of games he's started. Plus he leads w/ 7 300 yard passing games in the playoffs. Sorry but not just anyone can do that. Think of all the great passers that played a long time that he's ahead of in this category...Fouts, Moon, Elway, Kelly...the guy was a pure stud. I always wished that when Gibbs came back in 04 that he would've tried to make a run for him instead of Brunell. He was out there for anyone to sign in 04 and 05.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:26 PM   #51
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

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Whenever people talk whos better Manning or Brady thats the one argument for Brady. He never had a really great WR cast around him untill 2007 when Moss and Welker showed up. MAYBE you can make the case for Deion Branch, but hes more of just a big name to me. The best offessive player behind Brady was Adam Vinatieri proir to the arrivial of Moss and Welker. Could Manning have done what Brady did coming into NE?

So i put Warner and Manning in the same camp, except Manning has had more advantages (same team, offense, players, coaches, and everyone believing in him from the start). I think Manning is better but I really believe Warner is a all time great.
Interesting argument you got there. Brady did always have that great defense of the Patriots, and I think you have to take that into consideration. I think if Manning wins this SB, I would put him at the same level as Brady. I do agree that back in 2006, Brady had terrible receivers and besides Branch or Vinatieri there were no offensive weapons. But looking at the Colts this year, Manning carried that team on his back with a suspect running game and a decent defense.

As I was typing this, I thought of the following...

Brady went on IR in 2008 and the team went 11-5 with a career back up. What record do you guys think the Colts would be without Manning? Or the Cards without Warner? (well we're about to find the latter one next year)
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:59 PM   #52
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

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Interesting argument you got there. Brady did always have that great defense of the Patriots, and I think you have to take that into consideration. I think if Manning wins this SB, I would put him at the same level as Brady. I do agree that back in 2006, Brady had terrible receivers and besides Branch or Vinatieri there were no offensive weapons. But looking at the Colts this year, Manning carried that team on his back with a suspect running game and a decent defense.

As I was typing this, I thought of the following...

Brady went on IR in 2008 and the team went 11-5 with a career back up. What record do you guys think the Colts would be without Manning? Or the Cards without Warner? (well we're about to find the latter one next year)
There would be no way that they would have all of those 12 win seasons without Manning.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:32 PM   #53
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

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Why Kurt Warner Is NOT a Hall of Famer | Bleacher Report

This article talks about this and to be honest I like Warner and I think he's a good QB. Yes most of the great QBs had good WRs but Warner didn't just have good players around him he had great players that obviously helped. Even with these great players sometimes he still couldn't win as mentioned in the article. He averages 2.03 fumbles/int per start and he has had some great WRs and one of the great RB. Now imagine what his numbers would be if he wasn't blessed with GREAT talent around him? I think he's obviously better than just average which is why even Leinart can't do the same with the same talent around him cause he sucks and Warner is a good QB but I don't think we would be having any conversations of him being a HOF if he didn't have atleast 3-4 WRs that will also be HOF. I think there's a reason he gets benched by every team he plays for and if you look at his numbers he's had only around 5 good years the rest were mediocre-horrible. In my eyes he's not a HOF but I think he's a good QB who looked like a HOF with the talent around him and still sometimes looked bad with the same talent. Just read the article, it's interesting and its hard to ignore the bad parts of his career. I think without the talent around him he'd be ok but no where near where he is but he's a good story...
3-4 hof wrs ? i don't think so, maybe 1.

almost every hof qb had very good wrs.think of almost any hof qb and i bet you can also think of a great wr to go along. hof qbs and hof wrs kinda go hand-n- hand.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:42 PM   #54
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

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It just supports my theory that he can not thrive without good recievers around him. Players like Brady, Manning, Brees, and Favre are capable of making recievers look great. Players Like Palmer, Warner, Bulger, and others need a strong supporting cast.
Has Peyton Manning not always had a strong cast? He had Edgerrin James for a while taking pressure off the passing game when he was early in his career. He's had very strong TEs his entire career in Pollard and Clark. And how about Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne? This guy has had stud pass catchers around him since he first put on an NFL helmet. I'm not saying he's not phenomenal, because he is, but he's had some horses in his arsenal as well.

Favre is great, but he's had some studs, too. Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman, Shannon Sharpe, Donald Driver... Not too shabby.

Brady won some Super Bowls with pretty average receivers, I'll give you that. But his best numbers came with guys like Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

Great QBs are always going to make receivers look better, and vice versa. In Warner's case, I think he was a great QB who made great receivers look even better, and I also think those receivers returned the favor.

He is probably the best QB I've ever seen against the blitz, has a career passer rating of 94 (3rd all time), and has been deadly accurate his whole career. He has 58 career 300 yard games (only Marino has more- 63), which is good for nearly 45% of the games he played in. That's crazy. The next closest QB is Dan Fouts with 28%. In the history of the NFL, only Peyton Manning has thrown for more yards per game. Oh yeah, he also won 2 MVPs.

Sure, Warner has been the beneficiary of some very good offensive talent, but the guy was amazing. I don't know angry, I see what you're getting at, but I don't think it holds much water. When you look some of the all time passing stats, some of the names around him are Montana, Marino, Young, Favre, Manning, Brady, Fouts, Starr... It's not an accident. Warner was pretty awesome.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:43 PM   #55
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

Bottom line... nobody does it alone.
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:12 AM   #56
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

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3-4 hof wrs ? i don't think so, maybe 1.

almost every hof qb had very good wrs.think of almost any hof qb and i bet you can also think of a great wr to go along. hof qbs and hof wrs kinda go hand-n- hand.
Sorry but he had more than one just on the Rams... Fitz isn't there yet but he's a beast and I woulnd't be surpised if he gets in too. Yes ALMOST every HOF QB has good receiver because I know no one can do it alone but he had a couple HOF WRs and a HOF RB on the same team (where his best years were). I can understand people that think he's a HOFer but I'm just giving you my opinion he had not only talented receivers like Fitz and Boldin but he had 2 other HOF WRs with the Rams plus Faulk, and like I said he still had horrible times with all that talent. Even with the Rams he had a year where he had 3TDs and 11Int before being benched for either an injury or bad play I don't remember and another year where he had 18Int to 21TDs. He had his awsome years and like I said I can see why people would call him a HOFer but for as many yrs he had equally as many or more horrible years. He's a great story and I wish him the best, hell I hope he's a first ballot HOF he's a good guy and it's not not like I'm wishing he doesn't make it. I just dont think he's a HOF but that's just me. It's really none of my bussiness who makes it or doesn't I won't lose any sleep if he does or doesn't so why not let him in
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:05 AM   #57
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

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he had 3TDs and 11Int and another year where he had 18Int to 21TDs. I won't lose any sleep if he does or doesn't so why not let him in
most great qbs have a few bad seasons, heck, brett favre leads the nfl in ints. i won't lose sleep either regarless of if he makes it or not but imo warner is a lock to make it.
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:51 PM   #58
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

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most great qbs have a few bad seasons, heck, brett favre leads the nfl in ints. i won't lose sleep either regarless of if he makes it or not but imo warner is a lock to make it.
Warner has had more than a few and if I'm not mistaken Warner has more turnovers/game than Favre (The Int king) I'm almost 100% sure he has more fumbles than him since Warner is a fumble machine even in good games or good seasons. He might even have more ints/game too but I like Warner and I'm all for him getting to Canton, why not. I just think some people forget about his bad because he's such a great story and I think if you look at his stats you got maybe 5-6 good years out of a 12 year season so he might make it off of maybe 5-6 good years with as many bad ones. I know I'm in the minority here but he's had maybe 2-3 seasons were he actually plays the whole year. I think it's amazing the stats and accomplishments he has accumulated up in a shorter 12 yr career even with the more than good talent around him not any QB can do it just not a HOF QB imo...
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:42 PM   #59
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

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just not a HOF QB imo...
well, i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. it's all good. we've got at least 5 years to find out.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:20 PM   #60
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Re: Kurt Warner announces retirement after 12 seasons

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He still played at a high level after leaving San Fran without Rice.
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you just won't admit your wrong, will you.

how many teams has warner been the starting qb for ? 3, if thats correct then he has taken 2 out of the 3 to the superbowl and out of the two trips to the big game he's won 1. thats pretty impressive too me. btw, who was the mvp of the 1 he won ?
Your rhetoric is insulting my intelligence. I am fully aware of Warner's accolades. Considering that the MVP of the Super Bowl is usually the QB anyway, pointing out the fact that he won it isnít really saying much.

BTW, I am not wrong until my hypothesis is wrong. If Leinart fails to put up Warner type numbers in Arizona with the same supporting cast, then I will be wrong. I will proudly admit that I am wrong if that day comes. Right now I have my opinion of Warner and I am sticking to it.
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