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How about moving Rogers to free safety?

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Old 02-11-2010, 11:38 AM   #16
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

^^^ i think being able to find the ball mid-flight is a very tough skill to learn and separates the elite cb from decent ones. I know d hall has that skill (and he probably tries to locate the ball too much, sometimes even playing off the receiver to try and bait the qb to throw the ball his way) but .. . .

i think los is our best all around cb, and normally i would agree with your comment that a cb probably has trouble picking the ball off b/c he cant locate the ball mid-flight, but ive seen so much of los (we all have) where he sees the ball, it is coming right at him, he watches the ball into his hands then for what ever reason he doesnt catch it.

los could def improve on his ball flight location, but imo alot of his missed picks were b/c of stone hands and vodoo.

im nitpickin
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:42 AM   #17
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

what about chris horton? he was a 7th round pick who had a very good rookie season, but regressed and then got injuried in his second season. Considering Doughty and Horton both suck at playing FS, i think if Landry moves to SS then one of them is gone and we pick up another safety who can play both positions decently. if forced to chose, i'd keep Doughty and try to move Horton for a late-round pick (5th-6th rounder).
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:51 AM   #18
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

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Originally Posted by over the mountain View Post
^^^ i think being able to find the ball mid-flight is a very tough skill to learn and separates the elite cb from decent ones. I know d hall has that skill (and he probably tries to locate the ball too much, sometimes even playing off the receiver to try and bait the qb to throw the ball his way) but .. . .

i think los is our best all around cb, and normally i would agree with your comment that a cb probably has trouble picking the ball off b/c he cant locate the ball mid-flight, but ive seen so much of los (we all have) where he sees the ball, it is coming right at him, he watches the ball into his hands then for what ever reason he doesnt catch it.

los could def improve on his ball flight location, but imo alot of his missed picks were b/c of stone hands and vodoo.

im nitpickin
I agree......And IMO being able to locate the ball in flight to the receiver has always been Carlos'es greatest weakness, but it's a technique that's coachable and one he can practice until he becomes better at it. For a long time I've felt that to be the one flaw (except his hands) that has kept him from being among the more elite group of CB's.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:52 AM   #19
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

Here is a take with a nice stat for the people who tend to live and die by with that stuff: "Though heís had a couple poor games, Rogers has strung together a very nice season this year. Heís been targeted only 61 times this year, which is a distant second only to Nnamdi Asomugha among corners who have played at least 75% of their teamís snaps. Rogers is a pretty good cover corner, but finished the season in the teamís doghouse."

1. Los is a better corner than he gets credit for
2. Poor attitude and his mouth put him in a negative light BUT the Blache treatment affects others as well ie Haynesworth so the same people who give Fat Albert a pass should understand Carlos frustration
3. He is not a big play guy, ok I understand that...hands of stones, he doesnt take chances..but we got Hall across the way who does. Ill take a guy all who does his job: covers receivers and denys them the ball.

We shouldnt move Carlos to FS, just like we should keep Orakpo on the DL, and would should move Landry to SS.
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:15 PM   #20
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

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I think I mentioned this back in December, but Tripp arguably had a better idea in moving Hall to FS where he can be the ballhawk that he is.

Still, don't think either has the ability that say Shawn Springs had in moving easily between CB and FS...can we bring Springs back for a year?
I'd be afraid he'll tear a wrist tendon signing his contract..

I'm not a Rogers fan AT ALL but moving him to FS would be an even worse place for him than CB. 2 big things you look for from your FS are solid tackling (and tackling angles) and good hands.. Rogers possesses neither. I hope he's tendered and someone will give us a 2nd for him..
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:24 PM   #21
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I think I mentioned this back in December, but Tripp arguably had a better idea in moving Hall to FS where he can be the ballhawk that he is.

Still, don't think either has the ability that say Shawn Springs had in moving easily between CB and FS...can we bring Springs back for a year?
Yeah I remember that and it'd be more ideal if 1) we had more depth at CB and 2) Hall was a better tackler
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:26 PM   #22
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Rogers at FS would certainly be a last resort type of option. Assuming he returns, he does have more value as a shutdown corner with hands of stone.

I think for me the bigger questions at safety are a) can Kareem Moore finally be a starting FS allowing LL to play at SS and b) what about Chris Horton?
What about Horton as far as if Moore is at FS and Landry is at SS? Or what about Horton playing FS? I'm assuming you mean the first and in that case, unfortunately Horton won't be starting. If the second, I'm not sure what there's been seen to go with that suggestion.

What about Smoot at FS if we can't fill the role otherwise?
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:54 PM   #23
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

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What about Horton as far as if Moore is at FS and Landry is at SS? Or what about Horton playing FS? I'm assuming you mean the first and in that case, unfortunately Horton won't be starting. If the second, I'm not sure what there's been seen to go with that suggestion.

What about Smoot at FS if we can't fill the role otherwise?
Well Smoot did play some FS last year so if he stays then I guess he's an option, probably no more than a backup though

I meant what about Horton as far as just in general where does he fit in all this? It's almost like we've forgotten he's on the roster
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:06 PM   #24
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Well Smoot did play some FS last year so if he stays then I guess he's an option, probably no more than a backup though

I meant what about Horton as far as just in general where does he fit in all this? It's almost like we've forgotten he's on the roster
Yeah that was my thinking, plus his skillset, but yeah I wouldn't want to count on him without exploring other options.

That's what I thought you meant with Horton, unfortunately it probably doesn't give him much of an option, but if Landry is moving to SS primarily, well.. I'd take Landry too. What other option would Horton have to start other than putting on 20-30lbs or so and trying his hand at ILB? Hard to say.

While at what are we going to do with Player X, what about Jarmon if we switch to 3-4, etc? Probably better for a different thread, but there are definitely a number of personnel decisions to be made on the D side of the ball.
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:58 PM   #25
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
Here is a take with a nice stat for the people who tend to live and die by with that stuff: "Though heís had a couple poor games, Rogers has strung together a very nice season this year. Heís been targeted only 61 times this year, which is a distant second only to Nnamdi Asomugha among corners who have played at least 75% of their teamís snaps. Rogers is a pretty good cover corner, but finished the season in the teamís doghouse."

1. Los is a better corner than he gets credit for
2. Poor attitude and his mouth put him in a negative light BUT the Blache treatment affects others as well ie Haynesworth so the same people who give Fat Albert a pass should understand Carlos frustration
3. He is not a big play guy, ok I understand that...hands of stones, he doesnt take chances..but we got Hall across the way who does. Ill take a guy all who does his job: covers receivers and denys them the ball.

We shouldnt move Carlos to FS, just like we should keep Orakpo on the DL, and would should move Landry to SS.
Good post, I agree for the most part. There is so much about playing CB that goes unoticed. The 2nd point of yours is well taken though, and it often seems his attitude has been the difference between him being a decent v. top notch CB.

That's just my impression from his comments after giving up big plays. I can see why a conservative coach like Blache had him in the doghouse. Blache hates it when players are undisciplined.
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:01 PM   #26
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

For people that watch soccer, trying to put a CB at S is like trying to move a left or right back to center back. Sure you can do it but 9 times out of 10 it's a bad idea. Hopefully the one or two people understand this post can appreciate what I'm trying to say.
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:48 PM   #27
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

There are alot of players on this team that have under achieved Los is just one of them. Perhaps the scheme is to blame or poor coaching maybe a little of both along with poor attitudes. Who knows? I look foward to the new staff finding and fixing these issues. I really feel like Los ,Landry, DT, MK and Orakpo will benefit most from this regime change. I see it as more of an opportunity for these guys to finally develop rather than an opportunity to move these players out of their natural positions .
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:51 PM   #28
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

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Who do you put in at starting CB with Hall if you move Rogers?? For the record I'm not a fan of such a move at all.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:11 PM   #29
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

I favor getting really crazy and going right to a 3-3-5.

Rogers and Barnes at the corners, Hall or Landry at free safety, Horton at strong safety, Doughty at weak safety. Then Orakpo as a rush LB with Blades and Fletcher as interior types in a gap-focused scheme. Haynesworth-Alexander-Jarmon/Carter on the DL.

Rogers at free safety seems like a bit of a waste, considering that the regression of the scheme in DB aggressiveness (a staple of the Gregg Williams scheme) seems to be primarily to blame for Rogers' poor season, but all the points I would have made seem to have been made already, so I have little to add but to propose a ridiculous defensive alignment.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:15 PM   #30
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Re: How about moving Rogers to free safety?

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
For people that watch soccer, trying to put a CB at S is like trying to move a left or right back to center back. Sure you can do it but 9 times out of 10 it's a bad idea. Hopefully the one or two people understand this post can appreciate what I'm trying to say.
We could make it a good move by sneaking a twelfth guy onto the field, while no one is looking. Bet those European Footballers never thought of that!
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