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ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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Old 02-23-2010, 02:32 PM   #196
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

^^ I'm not the world's greatest JC fan. But you guys are seriously undervaluing JC with your trade proposals. A 3rd rounder for a QB with a lifetime passer rating in the 80's and with significant starting experience? Some other team will value him eventually. We should hang on to him until we get that high value.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:39 PM   #197
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
^^ I'm not the world's greatest JC fan. But you guys are seriously undervaluing JC with your trade proposals. A 3rd rounder for a QB with a lifetime passer rating in the 80's and with significant starting experience? Some other team will value him eventually. We should hang on to him until we get that high value.
That's why we were able to trade him away last year for a 2nd right?
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:40 PM   #198
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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^^ I'm not the world's greatest JC fan. But you guys are seriously undervaluing JC with your trade proposals. A 3rd rounder for a QB with a lifetime passer rating in the 80's and with significant starting experience? Some other team will value him eventually. We should hang on to him until we get that high value.
Are you talking to me or BHA? I mean I know I sort of endorsed BHA's 3rd round proposal but I had a different scenario. Ironically though I believe the QB's that fetch second round picks are either truly seasoned veterans (who usually get traded away for much higher a la Jay Cutler), smart teams dealing with dumb teams (Eagles getting AJ Feely for a 2nd round pick from Miami), or guys that have shown flashes (Matt Schuab and Matt Cassel).

Cassel was part of an 11-5 Patriots team (11-4 in games Cassel started) and that was pretty much his only year playing. Matt Schuab lit teams up in the preseason and then played well when given a chance during the regular season. However at the same time there was a sort of mystery. It's the same reason why guys that are valued as top picks (like Matt Leinart and Jakim Noah in the NBA) then go on to drop a few spots the following year.

It's sad but the more time scouts have to dissect a player the lower their value, well more so when they're initially valued high. Obviously we have guys every year that are valued as 3rd or 4th round picks during preseason only to end up as 1st round picks by the time the draft roles around.

Could JC fetch a 2nd round pick? Possibly but I really think teams are scared by the fact that he has a relatively large body of work and only so much to show for it. But hey you never know. All we need is to get a call from Al Davis or Ralph Wilson and we're raking in the picks.

On second thought if we can convince Jason to change his first name to Matt then I think we could grantee a second round pick for Campbell. In short Matt Campbell is worth more then Jason Campbell.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:56 PM   #199
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
Are you talking to me or BHA? I mean I know I sort of endorsed BHA's 3rd round proposal but I had a different scenario. Ironically though I believe the QB's that fetch second round picks are either truly seasoned veterans (who usually get traded away for much higher a la Jay Cutler), smart teams dealing with dumb teams (Eagles getting AJ Feely for a 2nd round pick from Miami), or guys that have shown flashes (Matt Schuab and Matt Cassel).

Cassel was part of an 11-5 Patriots team (11-4 in games Cassel started) and that was pretty much his only year playing. Matt Schuab lit teams up in the preseason and then played well when given a chance during the regular season. However at the same time there was a sort of mystery. It's the same reason why guys that are valued as top picks (like Matt Leinart and Jakim Noah in the NBA) then go on to drop a few spots the following year.

It's sad but the more time scouts have to dissect a player the lower their value, well more so when they're initially valued high. Obviously we have guys every year that are valued as 3rd or 4th round picks during preseason only to end up as 1st round picks by the time the draft roles around.

Could JC fetch a 2nd round pick? Possibly but I really think teams are scared by the fact that he has a relatively large body of work and only so much to show for it. But hey you never know. All we need is to get a call from Al Davis or Ralph Wilson and we're raking in the picks.

On second thought if we can convince Jason to change his first name to Matt then I think we could grantee a second round pick for Campbell. In short Matt Campbell is worth more then Jason Campbell.
1) JC is a "truly seasoned veteran." And he has "shown flashes." Sooner or later there will be a personnel guy out there who thinks that JC unfairly has been mismanaged and/or has underachieved due to his offensive line.

2) Your example of Feely is a good one. He attracted a #2 pick. Hold out long enough and someone will offer that for JC (someone like Al Davis or Ralph Wilson, as you mention).
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:56 PM   #200
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
Are you talking to me or BHA? I mean I know I sort of endorsed BHA's 3rd round proposal but I had a different scenario. Ironically though I believe the QB's that fetch second round picks are either truly seasoned veterans (who usually get traded away for much higher a la Jay Cutler), smart teams dealing with dumb teams (Eagles getting AJ Feely for a 2nd round pick from Miami), or guys that have shown flashes (Matt Schuab and Matt Cassel).

Cassel was part of an 11-5 Patriots team (11-4 in games Cassel started) and that was pretty much his only year playing. Matt Schuab lit teams up in the preseason and then played well when given a chance during the regular season. However at the same time there was a sort of mystery. It's the same reason why guys that are valued as top picks (like Matt Leinart and Jakim Noah in the NBA) then go on to drop a few spots the following year.

It's sad but the more time scouts have to dissect a player the lower their value, well more so when they're initially valued high. Obviously we have guys every year that are valued as 3rd or 4th round picks during preseason only to end up as 1st round picks by the time the draft roles around.

Could JC fetch a 2nd round pick? Possibly but I really think teams are scared by the fact that he has a relatively large body of work and only so much to show for it. But hey you never know. All we need is to get a call from Al Davis or Ralph Wilson and we're raking in the picks.

On second thought if we can convince Jason to change his first name to Matt then I think we could grantee a second round pick for Campbell. In short Matt Campbell is worth more then Jason Campbell.
I will be interested to see what the market bears out for JC, if we ever do. I understand the points you make, and generally agree that the book on JC has basically been written, but I can't help but think there is a team out there, who will look at him, look at the mess that has been the Redskins, and decide to give this guy a shot. I don't think a 2nd round pick for a solid starter is that over the top.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:57 PM   #201
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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That's why we were able to trade him away last year for a 2nd right?
Even if that rumor about a number 2 pick were true, remember who was shopping for the Redskins groceries then. Other GM's may have perceived Vinny as "fleece-able."
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:13 PM   #202
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

I just don't see anyone trying to give a straight up 2nd for JC. Once you start mixing in other players/picks maybe you could work them a bit in that direction, but that's about it.
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:02 PM   #203
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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^^ I'm not the world's greatest JC fan. But you guys are seriously undervaluing JC with your trade proposals. A 3rd rounder for a QB with a lifetime passer rating in the 80's and with significant starting experience? Some other team will value him eventually. We should hang on to him until we get that high value.
Lotus I think JC's value has been way higher within the franchise than elsewhere in the league. Hard to tell if that's the case now w/ Shanahan/Allen in the driver's seat. But I doubt very much they expect a valuable trade for Jason alone...whenever the franchise shopped him in the past in basically amounted to zero interest for him. In fact I think the only way he gets traded is part of a larger deal.

Also man look at where Jason could have "connections?" Zorn is working w/ a well established QB/offense. Gibbs only connection is to DC. Where is Saunders? Jason just doesn't have a lot of leads to look for.

I said it a couple weeks ago and think about it more and more...I could see JC out of the league completely soon if Shanny dumps him. Jason sees himself far better than basically everyone else does (who matters in the NFL...sorry GTripp ).
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:06 PM   #204
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

^ Well, fair enough guys. Like I said, I am not JC's greatest supporter, so I'm not going to push the argument too far. Let's see what happens.
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:07 PM   #205
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

i could see campbell netting us a 2nd rounder in some type of package deal. maybe with the bills.
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:27 PM   #206
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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^ Well, fair enough guys. Like I said, I am not JC's greatest supporter, so I'm not going to push the argument too far. Let's see what happens.
And to be fair I have been a huge supporter. I also still know the best scenario for everyone is JC becomes ProBowl QB in the B & G this year.
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:48 PM   #207
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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Lotus I think JC's value has been way higher within the franchise than elsewhere in the league. Hard to tell if that's the case now w/ Shanahan/Allen in the driver's seat. But I doubt very much they expect a valuable trade for Jason alone...whenever the franchise shopped him in the past in basically amounted to zero interest for him. In fact I think the only way he gets traded is part of a larger deal.

Also man look at where Jason could have "connections?" Zorn is working w/ a well established QB/offense. Gibbs only connection is to DC. Where is Saunders? Jason just doesn't have a lot of leads to look for.

I said it a couple weeks ago and think about it more and more...I could see JC out of the league completely soon if Shanny dumps him. Jason sees himself far better than basically everyone else does (who matters in the NFL...sorry GTripp ).
pretty much any team would be thrilled to have JC as a backup, he won't be out of the league unless he demands to start and holds out otherwise

there are spots for him even if teams aren't clawing at the gates to get to him, including starting spots

you can't expect jc to say "well it's up to coach to decide if i'm good enough to start" .. mentioning potential incompetence is career suicide
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:14 PM   #208
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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And to be fair I have been a huge supporter. I also still know the best scenario for everyone is JC becomes ProBowl QB in the B & G this year.
Personally I can't decide if Campbell is going to be David Garrard or Matt Schuab. Depends on what day you ask me.
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:22 PM   #209
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

How about Jason Campbell and the 4th overall pick to San Franciso for their 13th and 18th overall picks?
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:28 PM   #210
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Re: ESPN: Clayton Expects Skins to Tender Campbell for a 1st and 3rd

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How about Jason Campbell and the 4th overall pick to San Franciso for their 13th and 18th overall picks?
Not to far fetched but the thing is

1) The 4th pick should cost two first round picks on it's own

2) If you drop down that far and trade your QB then you have not only lost a starter but you've severely limited your chances of getting Bradford or Clausen to replace him. Your best hope is that one of them drops which is not something I would bank on in this situation.
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