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Time to Build an Offensive Line

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Old 03-05-2010, 06:49 PM   #181
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
Williams had a lot to overcome in a short period of time, I thought he was up and down last year. The coaches obviously see some potential there so I'll defer to their opinion. At least this year he can work on technique instead of auditioning for the biggest loser.
We def saw Mike Williams struggle off and on but personally I'm willing to cut him slack because the musical chairs gig probably made it even harder to adjust after all the time outside the football. I think w/ continued commitment and the Shanny brand of oline he's a strong candidate to start at RG or be a consistent backup at RG/RT.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:55 PM   #182
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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We def saw Mike Williams struggle off and on but personally I'm willing to cut him slack because the musical chairs gig probably made it even harder to adjust after all the time outside the football. I think w/ continued commitment and the Shanny brand of oline he's a strong candidate to start at RG or be a consistent backup at RG/RT.

Agree he's still some what young and he was an Ex-1st round pick.
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Old 03-05-2010, 08:05 PM   #183
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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Any word on how Chad Clifton and Tony Pasho's are doing with their skins visit? I heard Clifton is just coming here to get the packers price up.
Clifton Stays with the Pack Packers T Clifton stays in GB for $20 million - NFL- nbcsports.msnbc.com
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:20 PM   #184
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Man, I just had a nightmare. Mike Williams at RT and Stephan Heyer at LT.
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:07 PM   #185
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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Man, I just had a nightmare. Mike Williams at RT and Stephan Heyer at LT.
I don't believe that Washington signed Williams to be a tackle today but the fact that he can play tackle makes him more valuable (typically it is ideal if a reserve lineman can play more than one position in a pinch).

Here is my take on Mike Williams. First, Allen and Shanahan have ZERO ties to Big Mike. I think they proved yesterday that if you can't help the team, you won't be on the team. So, they must think that Mike deserves a spot on the team.

Now, I thought Doc Walker (someone who is an expert on line play) broke down Mike Williams very well today. Big Mike as a tackle is a liability. I think everyone will admit that. However, as a guard he performed much better. He showed signs of being a mauler in the run game and the fact that you have a guard with tackle skills helps in pass pro.

Now, what will be different this year? His body will be accustomed to being 340 - 360 as opposed to being 450. There is a transition period for people who gain a lot of weight or lose a lot of weight in a short period of time.

MOST IMPORTANTLY for him to be a contributor, he has to stay healthy. He wasn't healthy last year but still played almost the whole year.

Another key, they have to get a quality right tackle. Williams struggled but he had no help with Heyer next to him. Heyer can help in a pinch, but if he is a starting lineman for us, we have no chance long term.

Why am I hopeful that Mike Williams can help us? First, he has pedigree. He was an all-american at a premier program. Next, he actually has potential to improve. He has another full year to train and get in football shape.

I am hopeful for big things this year from him, ideally as a reserve. Unfortunately, we may need him to start some games though...
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:19 PM   #186
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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I don't believe that Washington signed Williams to be a tackle today but the fact that he can play tackle makes him more valuable (typically it is ideal if a reserve lineman can play more than one position in a pinch).

Here is my take on Mike Williams. First, Allen and Shanahan have ZERO ties to Big Mike. I think they proved yesterday that if you can't help the team, you won't be on the team. So, they must think that Mike deserves a spot on the team.

Now, I thought Doc Walker (someone who is an expert on line play) broke down Mike Williams very well today. Big Mike as a tackle is a liability. I think everyone will admit that. However, as a guard he performed much better. He showed signs of being a mauler in the run game and the fact that you have a guard with tackle skills helps in pass pro.

Now, what will be different this year? His body will be accustomed to being 340 - 360 as opposed to being 450. There is a transition period for people who gain a lot of weight or lose a lot of weight in a short period of time.

MOST IMPORTANTLY for him to be a contributor, he has to stay healthy. He wasn't healthy last year but still played almost the whole year.

Another key, they have to get a quality right tackle. Williams struggled but he had no help with Heyer next to him. Heyer can help in a pinch, but if he is a starting lineman for us, we have no chance long term.

Why am I hopeful that Mike Williams can help us? First, he has pedigree. He was an all-american at a premier program. Next, he actually has potential to improve. He has another full year to train and get in football shape.

I am hopeful for big things this year from him, ideally as a reserve. Unfortunately, we may need him to start some games though...
I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:38 PM   #187
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight View Post
I don't believe that Washington signed Williams to be a tackle today but the fact that he can play tackle makes him more valuable (typically it is ideal if a reserve lineman can play more than one position in a pinch).

Here is my take on Mike Williams. First, Allen and Shanahan have ZERO ties to Big Mike. I think they proved yesterday that if you can't help the team, you won't be on the team. So, they must think that Mike deserves a spot on the team.

Now, I thought Doc Walker (someone who is an expert on line play) broke down Mike Williams very well today. Big Mike as a tackle is a liability. I think everyone will admit that. However, as a guard he performed much better. He showed signs of being a mauler in the run game and the fact that you have a guard with tackle skills helps in pass pro.

Now, what will be different this year? His body will be accustomed to being 340 - 360 as opposed to being 450. There is a transition period for people who gain a lot of weight or lose a lot of weight in a short period of time.

MOST IMPORTANTLY for him to be a contributor, he has to stay healthy. He wasn't healthy last year but still played almost the whole year.

Another key, they have to get a quality right tackle. Williams struggled but he had no help with Heyer next to him. Heyer can help in a pinch, but if he is a starting lineman for us, we have no chance long term.

Why am I hopeful that Mike Williams can help us? First, he has pedigree. He was an all-american at a premier program. Next, he actually has potential to improve. He has another full year to train and get in football shape.

I am hopeful for big things this year from him, ideally as a reserve. Unfortunately, we may need him to start some games though...
Nice post. I think the part in bold is key. Even at 340 I remember folks saying Mike had surprising agility, and that's after how many years outside the game? As a huge, agile guard he could be very important in the zone-blocking scheme, though I don't enough acumen to know how he'll make the transition otherwise.

The part about Mike playing next to a RT superior to Heyer is also important. Personally I'm surprised we even kept Heyer. In space is just awful and watching him target, close and then block someone (which is key in zone-blocking) is just painful.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:03 PM   #188
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.
Levi isn't taking us to the bowl but I don't see how him being on the roster hurts us. We need two experienced tackles going into the season whether we draft a tackle or two or not.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:06 PM   #189
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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Originally Posted by T.O.Killa View Post
I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.
Some games he was a freaking revolving door though. I'd expect them to give him a lil more help if that starts happening though.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:08 PM   #190
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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Nice post. I think the part in bold is key. Even at 340 I remember folks saying Mike had surprising agility, and that's after how many years outside the game? As a huge, agile guard he could be very important in the zone-blocking scheme, though I don't enough acumen to know how he'll make the transition otherwise.

The part about Mike playing next to a RT superior to Heyer is also important. Personally I'm surprised we even kept Heyer. In space is just awful and watching him target, close and then block someone (which is key in zone-blocking) is just painful.
I forget which game it was, hell it was probably more than one game, but Heyer couldn't even get the snap count right. I thought it was the Ballcoach era all over again.

My hope for Heyer is that he ends up our 4th tackle. If Big Mike and Stephon are both on our bench to start the year, I think we are in decent shape.

Btw...I am all for renting Mawae. We need at least one premium lineman playing for us week one. I think he has intangibles too.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:15 PM   #191
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.
I never thought Levi Jones was playing well last year.
And the stats from pro football prospectus list him as the second worst OT in the league last year.

Imo, OT and specifically Levi Jones were the biggests weak spot on the team.

I don't know why Jones gets a pass from some people yet Heyer gets bashed although he played most of the season injured and still finished the season with better stats then Jones.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:21 PM   #192
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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I forget which game it was, hell it was probably more than one game, but Heyer couldn't even get the snap count right. I thought it was the Ballcoach era all over again.

My hope for Heyer is that he ends up our 4th tackle. If Big Mike and Stephon are both on our bench to start the year, I think we are in decent shape.

Btw...I am all for renting Mawae. We need at least one premium lineman playing for us week one. I think he has intangibles too.
Rabach's smallish size is already a bit of a liability facing the nasty d-lines in the NFC East...putting him at guard is downright scary so I can't imagine we paid him to do anything but play center. That said Mawae would have been an enormous upgrade so I'm kind of surprised we "rushed" to lock up Rabach.

I think Shanny has to be very focused on the oline (obviously) beyond just acquiring younger, legitimate players. In Denver he didn't face conference rivals w/ d-lines like we see so he could get away w/ smallish, quicker linemen for the zone-blocking. Smallish guys, no matter how talented, will probably get destroyed facing our rivals 6 games each year. I think he needs the best of the best type of trench troops, extremely agile large guys to make his scheme work now. That cries out youth like I don't know what. This is why I was worried about Clifton coming here. We need serious talent in this group. Btw I think Shanny/Allen know this and probably don't expect to sign our LT/RT starters in FA. Just my hunch...
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:25 PM   #193
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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Rabach's smallish size is already a bit of a liability facing the nasty d-lines in the NFC East...putting him at guard is downright scary so I can't imagine we paid him to do anything but play center. That said Mawae would have been an enormous upgrade so I'm kind of surprised we "rushed" to lock up Rabach.

I think Shanny has to be very focused on the oline (obviously) beyond just acquiring younger, legitimate players. In Denver he didn't face conference rivals w/ d-lines like we see so he could get away w/ smallish, quicker linemen for the zone-blocking. Smallish guys, no matter how talented, will probably get destroyed facing our rivals 6 games each year. I think he needs the best of the best type of trench troops, extremely agile large guys to make his scheme work now. That cries out youth like I don't know what. This is why I was worried about Clifton coming here. We need serious talent in this group. Btw I think Shanny/Allen know this and probably don't expect to sign our LT/RT starters in FA. Just my hunch...
I was hopefull for Clifton because as far as I can tell we only have two starting quality lineman at the moment. I am not panicked but I am nervous...
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:31 PM   #194
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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I never thought Levi Jones was playing well last year.
And the stats from pro football prospectus list him as the second worst OT in the league last year.

Imo, OT and specifically Levi Jones were the biggests weak spot on the team.

I don't know why Jones gets a pass from some people yet Heyer gets bashed although he played most of the season injured and still finished the season with better stats then Jones.
That's what I was thinking too.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:51 PM   #195
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Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
Rabach's smallish size is already a bit of a liability facing the nasty d-lines in the NFC East...putting him at guard is downright scary so I can't imagine we paid him to do anything but play center. That said Mawae would have been an enormous upgrade so I'm kind of surprised we "rushed" to lock up Rabach.

I think Shanny has to be very focused on the oline (obviously) beyond just acquiring younger, legitimate players. In Denver he didn't face conference rivals w/ d-lines like we see so he could get away w/ smallish, quicker linemen for the zone-blocking. Smallish guys, no matter how talented, will probably get destroyed facing our rivals 6 games each year. I think he needs the best of the best type of trench troops, extremely agile large guys to make his scheme work now. That cries out youth like I don't know what. This is why I was worried about Clifton coming here. We need serious talent in this group. Btw I think Shanny/Allen know this and probably don't expect to sign our LT/RT starters in FA. Just my hunch...
I think Denver had a winning record against the NFC East....and big guys tire more easily when they're a mile high above sea level(I think anyway)
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