Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


Time to Build an Offensive Line

Redskins Locker Room


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-20-2010, 12:16 PM   #91
Gamebreaker
 
tryfuhl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Waldorf, MD
Age: 30
Posts: 12,514
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I think Rodger Saffold from Indiana might be a good 4th-5th round choice

Been hearing some talk of Selvish Capers in the 2nd round for the Skins this week. Not sure what to make of that.
Yeah not sure about that one either. A guy that would be more suited towards starting soon would be better, even if it's at RT. I hear he's more of a LT but not quite ready to start.
tryfuhl is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 02-20-2010, 03:02 PM   #92
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,647
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
Just as I suspected (by reading these posts), just about every FA offensive lineman that we could get (UFAs) are over the age of 30. While a number of them could play very well and would be huge upgrades over our current players, I think by filling all of the holes in the line with 30+ year old lineman, you're at risk of having injured starters.

I just feel that we've been gambling on patching up the line with older players for a while now. And the downside of this year is that we aren't able to pick up a marquee lineman in his mid to late 20s (i.e. Marcus McNeill) because RFA rules due to the uncapped season, without giving up draft picks.

It seems like everyone wants to get young at every position except the line (see the Jamal Lewis and Chester Taylor threads).
In the QB vs OT at #4 argument, I think this is a strong point of yours. Drafting Bradford/Clausen would make it more difficult to get young on the OL. We can draft a QB at #4 and still put together a decent line but it would not be as young as it would if we took Okung.
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2010, 03:09 PM   #93
Playmaker
 
sportscurmudgeon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,159
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

30gut:

Heyer and Williams were part of an offensive line that was overmatched in just about every game. Heyer is marginal against a pass rush and is less than satisfactory as a run blocker. Did you notice how often the Skins "ran left" on short yardage situations? I'm sure opposing defensive coordinators did. The reason they "ran left" is that Heyer as the RT is not any good at run blocking. He is an emergency player not a starter.

Williams' participation in games at right guard did not show any measured improvement in pass blocking by the OL and if he ever led a big run play downfield, I must have been distracted because I did not see it. I also never saw him "pancake" any DL in front of him. Sorry, this guy has a LOT of improving to do before he qualifies as a starter on a contending team. How would I describe his play at RG? Marginal - - and I would wager that if the Redskins cut him today, his agent's telephone would not be ringing off the hook with offers from 20 other teams in the NFL. If he were really a "bright spot" on the OL, and he were released, he would be contacted by a dozen other teams within the hour...

Rinehart has been here for two seasons. He has made it to the field on a Sunday how many times? Three? Four? Five at the most. Remember, he did not play at all in his rookie season... He was hurt this year and missed 6 games due to injury but that leaves 26 games in his career and he only found the field 3-5 times. Evidently, the coaches figured that he was lacking in skills most of the time that they put together their game plans.

If Williams and Rinehart are "2 bright spots" on the Skins' OL, how come they were not in games very often? And when they were in games, how come the Skins didn't dominate people?

The fact that Williams was an UDFA playing out of position does not mean he is a "bright spot" on the OL. The fact that he was not mentioned for any negatives does not mean he is a "bright spot" on the OL. When you out of the lineup because the coaches think there are better players than you are, you will never be mentioned for any "negatives"; that is not a "positive".

I read your original post carefully. I too have been saying that it will be next to impossible to reconstruct the entire OL in a single season. However, I simply cannot subscribe to the notion that the "OL began playing well once the rotating door stopped." The OL did not play well for most of the season; once Samuels and Thomas were hurt, it played poorly to marginally for the rest of the season. That poor-to-marginal play is a major reason the record was 4-12.

Just when did the OL start to play well in 2009?

Game 16 the Skins lost to the Chargers' JV squad.

Game 15 the Skins lost to the Cowboys in a shutout. Guess the OL didn't have a lot of "bright spots" that day.

Game 14 the Skins lost to a mediocre Giants' team by almost 5 TDs.

Game 13 the Skins beat the Oakland Raiders by 3 TDs. If this is when the OL line play began to be a positive, it sure seems to have evaporated quickly...
__________________
The Sports Curmudgeon
www.sportscurmudgeon.com
But don't get me wrong, I love sports...
sportscurmudgeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2010, 03:18 PM   #94
Naega jeil jal naga
 
Dirtbag59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland
Age: 29
Posts: 14,661
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryfuhl View Post
Yeah not sure about that one either. A guy that would be more suited towards starting soon would be better, even if it's at RT. I hear he's more of a LT but not quite ready to start.
In that case we would probably be going for the tackle overkill scenario (not that it's a bad thing). Capers would actually be a very good fit at RT in a ZBS considering he played a blindside RT at WVU, thats a rare type of RT. However if you find a way to get Okung and Charles Brown then you have the best tackle pair since Jansen/Samuels in their prime.

The scenario though that I keep on hearing these days is Okung/Jhavid Best (RB Cal). Which sounds logical. Personally I don't know what I want at this point. People around here have provided compelling arguments for keeping JC around past 2010 and personally it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I mean he seems at this point to be just as good as Matt Schuab when he came to the Texans but sometimes I wonder if I'm just overreaching.

Part of me would love to see Campbell succeed while the other voice in my head tells me that JC will only take us so far. Some other popular scenarios seem to be as follows.

1. Bradford or Clausen/ Best Available Tackle, hopefully Brown
2. Okung/ Brandon Spikes
3. Okung/ Jhavid Best
4. Okung/Brown or best available tackle
5. Okung/ Maurkice Pouncey (C/G Florida)
6. Okung/ Colt McCoy

There are a lot of options out there. Hopefully in the end we come away with two players that will help our franchise out for a long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
If Williams and Rinehart are "2 bright spots" on the Skins' OL, how come they were not in games very often? And when they were in games, how come the Skins didn't dominate people?
Williams was a rookie thats still developing and for all intents and purposes it was said that he was one of the more promising guys we had based on his performance in practice. One or two of our current lineman from last year are probably going to step up and play better then last year thanks to the new system.

The Falcons had that with their entire line when Mularky came in though I wouldn't bank on such a promising turnaround for our own line. And personally I don't know about Rineharts ability to function in a ZBS but we'll either find out in camp or hopefully find a way to bring in Chris Kuper. It's very likely though that Ben Hamilton will be here on the start of free agency.

I'd also like to encourage people not to sleep on Rabach. Rabach was pretty good earlier in his career in power blocking schemes and now he's about to be part of an offense tailored to his strengths.
Quote:
Comment: Rabach has been a mainstay in the middle of the Redskins' offensive line since coming over from Baltimore in 2005. He has excellent quickness and balance. He gains leverage early in the play and utilizes active hands, technique and effort to defeat larger defenders. He is an intelligent player who makes all the line calls and understands angles as well as reacting quickly to changing fronts and pressure packages. He is effective on combination blocks to scoop up to the second level. He is solid in space to lock on and wall off moving targets. He can slide and recover in the box when pass protecting but lacks great size and power verse larger bull rushers. Rabach is a tough, hardnosed football player who has been one of the most consistent performers for the Redskins' offensive line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I think Rodger Saffold from Indiana might be a good 4th-5th round choice
I think we would be very lucky to have him fall that far. It feels like to be that he could easily be one of those guys that slips into the second round but last no later then the early third. So far he's been impressive this offseason with a strong performance at the East-West All Star Game.
__________________
"It's nice to be important, but its more important to be nice."
- Scooter

"I feel like Dirtbag has been slowly and methodically trolling the board for a month or so now."
- FRPLG

Last edited by Dirtbag59; 02-20-2010 at 03:53 PM.
Dirtbag59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2010, 03:37 PM   #95
Naega jeil jal naga
 
Dirtbag59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland
Age: 29
Posts: 14,661
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Actually forget what I said about Rinehart. I mean lets remember this guy did play LT in college so he has some agility. And from what I've hear he wasn't really to bad when he played last year. His scouting report from his rookie year also suggest he could be successful in a ZBS. Rinehart could easily become our next Dockery. A third round pick that we thought to be a lost cause that turns around to be one of our better players.

Quote:
Has above-average initial quickness for a guard and can get into position when technique is sound. Plays with a mean streak, delivers a violent punch and can jar defenders at the point of contact. Works from the snap until the whistle and can sustain blocks once locked on. Has adequate lower body strength and flashes the ability to drive defenders. Takes sound angles to downfield blocks and can get into position at the second level. (this is important in a ZBS) Keeps head up and generally does a good job of sliding off combo blocks to pick up linebackers (You want to pick up linebackers if you want to break off big runs). Shows good awareness in pass protection and can adjust to line stunts and blitzes. Though bends at the waist rather than the knees, has good size and can hold ground against bull rushers. Lined up at tackle in college and is somewhat versatile. While missed three games after undergoing an appendectomy in 2004 started the last 39 games of his collegiate career and is durable.
Right now I see the line shaping up next year as something like this.

LT - Rookie/Free Agent
LG - Dockery - Ben Hamilton
C - Rabach - Edwin Williams
RG - Rinehart - Kory L. (Chris Kuper or Maurice Pouncey would automatically become the starter if acquired)
RT - Rookie or Free Agent/Levi Jones

At this point though theres just to many variables and scenarios to make an accurate prediction. For the most part though I like the way our interior line is shaping up, even without a guy like Pouncey or Kuper. It's the two tackle spots that need a lot of work. One things for sure though. We won't have guys like Big Mike or Will Robinson starting for us.

By the way when do we get Armstrong back?
__________________
"It's nice to be important, but its more important to be nice."
- Scooter

"I feel like Dirtbag has been slowly and methodically trolling the board for a month or so now."
- FRPLG
Dirtbag59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2010, 04:11 PM   #96
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,683
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
The scenario though that I keep on hearing these days is Okung/Jhavid Best (RB Cal).
Where have you heard that? Best would be an awesome pick. Though I could see the Skins taking a chance of Coker in the 4th-5th round.
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 01:28 PM   #97
Gamebreaker
 
tryfuhl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Waldorf, MD
Age: 30
Posts: 12,514
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Love Best.. wouldn't mind trying Coker or Blount depending what we're aiming for in that dept

I'd also venture to say that Rine and crew didn't necessarily perform poorly, but there seemed to be gross mismanagement making decisions on things.
tryfuhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 03:02 PM   #98
Naega jeil jal naga
 
Dirtbag59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland
Age: 29
Posts: 14,661
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Where have you heard that? Best would be an awesome pick. Though I could see the Skins taking a chance of Coker in the 4th-5th round.
Crap I thought I replied to this. In fact now that I think about it, this was the last thread I remember reading before the meltdown.

Anyway to sum up I've seen both WalterDraft and Mel Kiper refer to Best as a possible 2nd round pick for the Redskins. On top of that I've seen what feels like numerous people suggesting the Okung/Best scenario a few times on RI and ES.

So it's by no means official, even by mock draft standards, but it sounds plausible, at least to me, and apparently a few others.
__________________
"It's nice to be important, but its more important to be nice."
- Scooter

"I feel like Dirtbag has been slowly and methodically trolling the board for a month or so now."
- FRPLG
Dirtbag59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 03:34 PM   #99
Special Teams
 
PHazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Originally Portsmouth, VA but now Ocala, FL
Posts: 207
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Why use a 2nd round pick on Jahvid Best? We already have a player with his skill set in Anthony Aldridge. RB coach just needs to coach him up more in holding the ball higher and tighter which i know he can do. Shanahan loves pounding the rock as much as he can but Best isnt an every down back. Why waste a pick as high as 2nd on a committee runner? No Thanx, grab more Olineman help Brown, Ducassee, Campbell, etc
__________________
If "The Future is Now" why would we use our #4 Pick on a QB who will spend the 1st year on the bench?
PHazard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 03:47 PM   #100
Playmaker
 
NYCskinfan82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Queens, NYC
Age: 44
Posts: 3,429
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHazard View Post
Why use a 2nd round pick on Jahvid Best? We already have a player with his skill set in Anthony Aldridge. RB coach just needs to coach him up more in holding the ball higher and tighter which i know he can do. Shanahan loves pounding the rock as much as he can but Best isnt an every down back. Why waste a pick as high as 2nd on a committee runner? No Thanx, grab more Olineman help Brown, Ducassee, Campbell, etc


Agree 110%
NYCskinfan82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 05:22 PM   #101
Naega jeil jal naga
 
Dirtbag59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland
Age: 29
Posts: 14,661
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHazard View Post
Why use a 2nd round pick on Jahvid Best? We already have a player with his skill set in Anthony Aldridge. RB coach just needs to coach him up more in holding the ball higher and tighter which i know he can do. Shanahan loves pounding the rock as much as he can but Best isnt an every down back. Why waste a pick as high as 2nd on a committee runner? No Thanx, grab more Olineman help Brown, Ducassee, Campbell, etc
Just to play devils advocate as I want to see either a QB/T or T/OL draft but you draft Best because you have visions of a young Clinton Portis. At the same time though he could easily end up being a flash in the pan like Julius Jones, Kevin Jones, and gasp Tatum Bell.

Personally the idea of drafting a RB this high at this point in time makes me nervous. Maybe if we were more established and were truly one or two pieces away from a Super Bowl, especially since RB's learn quickly in spite of their short shelf life.
__________________
"It's nice to be important, but its more important to be nice."
- Scooter

"I feel like Dirtbag has been slowly and methodically trolling the board for a month or so now."
- FRPLG
Dirtbag59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 05:34 PM   #102
Special Teams
 
PHazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Originally Portsmouth, VA but now Ocala, FL
Posts: 207
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
Just to play devils advocate as I want to see either a QB/T or T/OL draft but you draft Best because you have visions of a young Clinton Portis. At the same time though he could easily end up being a flash in the pan like Julius Jones, Kevin Jones, and gasp Tatum Bell.

Personally the idea of drafting a RB this high at this point in time makes me nervous. Maybe if we were more established and were truly one or two pieces away from a Super Bowl, especially since RB's learn quickly in spite of their short shelf life.
Just to play Keanu Reeves, Best isnt the same mold as a Clinton Portis, a Julius Jones, or a Kevin Jones. They are bigger stronger backs who can carry more of the workload. All have been the Main guy at some point in their respected careers. But Best is in the mold of a darren sproles, a leon washington, and an anthony alridge. A change of pace back. Speed that will catch you off guard. So again. No need to use a 2nd round pick on a change of pace back. If Portis goes down to injury, you trust best to take the bulk of the carries? With his past injury history, id say he wouldnt hold up long. If we're keeping portis, you take a 5-7th round pick or Undrafted rookie on a bigger back and use alridge in change of pace situations. Shanahan is the one who suggested him to the redskins. Said Alridge was the fastest player he'd ever seen on the field with a football in his hand. And Shanahan used him well for the 1 season wit Broncos. Hail.
__________________
If "The Future is Now" why would we use our #4 Pick on a QB who will spend the 1st year on the bench?
PHazard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 05:42 PM   #103
Naega jeil jal naga
 
Dirtbag59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland
Age: 29
Posts: 14,661
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHazard View Post
Just to play Keanu Reeves, Best isnt the same mold as a Clinton Portis, a Julius Jones, or a Kevin Jones. They are bigger stronger backs who can carry more of the workload. All have been the Main guy at some point in their respected careers. But Best is in the mold of a darren sproles, a leon washington, and an anthony alridge. A change of pace back. Speed that will catch you off guard. So again. No need to use a 2nd round pick on a change of pace back. If Portis goes down to injury, you trust best to take the bulk of the carries? With his past injury history, id say he wouldnt hold up long. If we're keeping portis, you take a 5-7th round pick or Undrafted rookie on a bigger back and use alridge in change of pace situations. Shanahan is the one who suggested him to the redskins. Said Alridge was the fastest player he'd ever seen on the field with a football in his hand. And Shanahan used him well for the 1 season wit Broncos. Hail.
Keanu,

The comparison to CP was based on the scouting reports of him saying that upon entering the league that he could not be counted on to be an every down back.

Quote:
Patient runner with great vision and a sense of awareness. Sees the field, waits for blocks to develop then follows them. Displays top footwork in a small area; sidesteps opponents, has some swivel to his runs, showing elusiveness in a small area. Leaves opponents grasping for air and weaves his way through the traffic, finding the small spaces in the defense and getting through them. Looks to set up his blocks either at the line of scrimmage or down the field. Adjusts off the initial hit, breaks arm tackles and quick regaining his balance and getting back to running form. Solid receiver out of the backfield that catches the ball cleanly and runs well after the reception. Does not translate his stop watch speed onto the football field; can not bounce it to the outside, run to daylight nor does he show a burst. Best between the tackles but may not have the size to take an every down pounding. Very productive and a runner who will produce if put in a rotational system that shuffles its backs in and out of the lineup. Late Second Round.
Though yes you're right Best is an outside runner while CP was obviously seen as a between the tackles guy. I wasn't even necessarily coming him skill wise to Kevin, Julius, and CP. Though out of that group Kevin might have been the only "everydown" back.
__________________
"It's nice to be important, but its more important to be nice."
- Scooter

"I feel like Dirtbag has been slowly and methodically trolling the board for a month or so now."
- FRPLG
Dirtbag59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 06:42 PM   #104
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,683
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

I'm really interested in seeing how Dwyer does at the combine. If he shows he can keep the weight off I think he's potentially a better choice than Best or Spiller

Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 06:59 PM   #105
Playmaker
 
WaldSkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Age: 31
Posts: 2,726
Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
SmootSmack;665505]I'm really interested in seeing how Dwyer does at the combine. If he shows he can keep the weight off I think he's potentially a better choice than Best or Spiller
[/B]
Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?
I would rather take LeGarette Blount or Dexter McCluster with a later pick
__________________
"I would change that around, Jesus isn't Cutler. I guarantee you Jesus couldnt thread the ball like Jay does."-Monksdown
WaldSkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.37984 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25