Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Redskins Locker Room


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-03-2010, 09:22 PM   #106
Special Teams
 
jdc65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 246
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Different attitude definately, more upbeat and respected viewpoints from the players is a positive. Still, I would like to see a noticeable upgrade on the roster, and at this point, I don't. It looks to me like they are still paring down expensive vets, and signing 1 year stop-gap players before the rebuilding process starts next year.
jdc65 is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 04-04-2010, 12:06 AM   #107
Special Teams
 
Beneil (diehard since 87)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 118
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc65 View Post
Different attitude definately, more upbeat and respected viewpoints from the players is a positive. Still, I would like to see a noticeable upgrade on the roster, and at this point, I don't. It looks to me like they are still paring down expensive vets, and signing 1 year stop-gap players before the rebuilding process starts next year.
I disagree. We've lost more "expensive vets" than we've signed. Our receiveing corps is slightly different since the two 2nd rounders are better now, Santana is the same, and El is out. We have room for a good rookie to add. At QB, say what you want about Mr Chicago, be's better as a number 2 than Todd Collins. As for our HB situation. Assuming CP keeps his spot, who's better, Betts or Larry johsnon? Who's better on 3rd down, Rock or Fast Willie?

That's the way I see it.
Beneil (diehard since 87) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 12:56 AM   #108
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,663
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc65 View Post
Different attitude definately, more upbeat and respected viewpoints from the players is a positive. Still, I would like to see a noticeable upgrade on the roster, and at this point, I don't. It looks to me like they are still paring down expensive vets, and signing 1 year stop-gap players before the rebuilding process starts next year.
I understand. But so far this offseason the upgrade choices have been few. Let's see what happens at and after the draft.
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 01:38 AM   #109
Gamebreaker
 
tryfuhl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Waldorf, MD
Age: 30
Posts: 12,514
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc65 View Post
Different attitude definately, more upbeat and respected viewpoints from the players is a positive. Still, I would like to see a noticeable upgrade on the roster, and at this point, I don't. It looks to me like they are still paring down expensive vets, and signing 1 year stop-gap players before the rebuilding process starts next year.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
tryfuhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 01:41 AM   #110
Registered User
 
Pocket$ $traight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fairfax, VA
Age: 38
Posts: 4,261
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
I understand. But so far this offseason the upgrade choices have been few. Let's see what happens at and after the draft.
Good point Lotus. People are judging our offseason and we haven't even made it to the draft. There are months of FA after that. Plus, too many people are discounting the difference of having Shanahan.

Doc Walker has consistently said something that I found interesting. He said that all of the problems with the O-line that we had were correctable. I believe him.

Look at what Pittsburgh corrected in 08 and then compare what we went through.

What is the difference? Pittsburgh has a great coaching staff we had the bike riding West Coast Spouting buffoon who got humilated by a guy who delivered Meals on Wheels.

Now, we not only are on a level playing field, our coach most likely has the advantage.
Pocket$ $traight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 02:30 AM   #111
Living Legend
 
GTripp0012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 26
Posts: 15,994
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Agreed with all the above. The day we need to cash in on our offseason is still three weeks away. The best thing we can do in the time leading up to the draft is simply not trade away our picks.
__________________
according to a source with knowledge of the situation.
GTripp0012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 11:36 AM   #112
Pro Bowl
 
Beemnseven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 40
Posts: 5,293
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight View Post
Doc Walker has consistently said something that I found interesting. He said that all of the problems with the O-line that we had were correctable. I believe him.
By "correctable" does he mean it can be corrected by all new players? Or just a new coaching staff?

Coach Bugel wasn't exactly chopped liver.
Beemnseven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 05:38 PM   #113
Pro Bowl
 
SirClintonPortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,052
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
By "correctable" does he mean it can be corrected by all new players? Or just a new coaching staff?

Coach Bugel wasn't exactly chopped liver.
Nah, Buges was good. We outright dominated the Saints' D.

A bad conditioning program and lack of talent is more to blame, IMO. If our fat boys don't have the proper cardio and strength training, it's not a wonder why they have been suck the past couple years.
SirClintonPortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 05:51 PM   #114
Pro Bowl
 
SirClintonPortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,052
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
I guess I'm trying to avoid being the guy who defines franchise quarterback and fits the definition to his argument. This is something you're avoiding as well. But I can see how, under a restrictive definition of the term, that you might only have 7 or 8 franchise QBs in the NFL (my top two tiers). I can also accept a more liberal/inclusive definition that allows for 18-22 franchise quarterbacks (including our own JC17). I personally don't care enough about the term itself to make a stand one way or another.

But my point of greater importantance is that Romo and Eli do bring (sustainable, repeatable) skills to the table that Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers do not, even if numbers wise, their per play and total production is indistinguishable. I'm not trying to disrespect Rodgers, Roethlisberger, or Matt Schaub here by declaring that they shouldn't be considered franchise quarterbacks even though their stats compare well to Romo and Eli, but that we should recognize the differences in context between "successful players" like those three, and players who have to deal with contextual deficiencies. Schaub, Rodgers, and Roethlisberger (and McNabb, really) all have high yards per attempt because they throw to a lot of WIDE open receivers downfield, and Campbell, Henne, Palmer, Garrard, and Cutler (09) really just don't have the same opportunities.

I think if they were in a great offense, Campbell's and Garrard's '09 production would be grounds for dismissal. (Sort of like '08 Cassel: you have that sort of production with the Redskins, you deserve a contract extension. With the Pats, it gets you traded.) However, neither gets pass protection, neither has a true downfield target that's ever open, both offenses lack ingenuity, and so then average performance looks kind of nice.

The problem with Hasselbeck is not durability (though that is a problem), it's that he's no longer in an offense where his familiarity with the timing of plays is useful. If he were producing like Campbell and Garrard, he probably would still have value. But he's played like a rookie in consecutive seasons, and replacement level (valueless by definition) would be a major improvement from the last two years. Hasselbeck used to be what Matt Schaub currently is: the system player who generates down-field plays in the context of the strong offense. He was a top quarterback as recently as age-33, but I do wonder if Matt Hasselbeck ever qualified as a franchise QB. Under the restrictive definition, I'd say: no. Same with Bulger, Delhomme, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Culpepper, and McNabb to an extent. At all of their peaks, these guys were major cogs in an offensive juggernaut, but limited without their other parts. And so, if you restrict the definition of franchise QB to "guy who makes players around them better," none of these guys qualify. None of the older guys withstood the test of time, and I doubt that Rodgers/Roethlisberger can reverse the trend.

Agreed that trying to discern which players are responsible for which percentage of a given production total is painful, time-consuming, and ultimately requires the necessity to continually check your assumptions with objective evidence and never get too comfortable with any given opinion. But painful or not, it's still a major part of player analysis.

So while I'd agree that 3/4ths of the league can't just replace their quarterback with the best available player and expect no dropoff, only about 1/4 of the league has a truly indispensable player at the QB position. It's fashionable to call a guy a franchise QB right out of college, but one of the reasons I don't think people should be surprised if Bradford or Clausen ends up being the next Campbell or Garrard is because you can't mandate context before the draft.
tl:dr
I just simplify my explanation. It's a bunch of hopefully self-evidently described tiers that are of the "closeness" a QB is to franchise status. "High-hope bringers" are exactly that, for example. They've done enough to at least give subjective optimism that they'll be something of worth in the future, and you can't have that if they did not a least do something on an objective level. They MAY flame out in the future, but as of now, they have shown that they could be something

Does other talent matter? Hell yes. But there are other QBs in the league that do not provide negative "utility" or provide more "utility" than other QBs. And IMO, JC17 is like a musket. If you have to use him, you will, but you ditch it for a rifle ASAP because of its unreliability and the amount effort just to get it to work.

Anyone would kill for Rapistberger's pocket presence and relative durability. Sure he may throw to wide open dudes, but there are some QBs who can't even get it open to wide open dudes.
And Favrah is NOT a system QB. He was CAPABLE of picking up any O and letting it rip, but since he was so ingrained in the WCO, that become his specialty. There have been a lot of WCO QBs, but some magnify what its capable of while others floundered in it, like Steve Deberg. Favrah fits in the former category. Hell, even if he struggled with the Jets' playbook, they still had a good offense before his bicep tendon decided to act up on him.
SirClintonPortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 02:33 PM   #115
Playmaker
 
Trample the Elderly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Three Chopt Virginia
Age: 36
Posts: 2,906
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

'It's just totally different than it used to be'


I bet it is.
__________________
A funny thing happened on the way to the temple. The moneychangers bought the priesthood.
Trample the Elderly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 02:52 PM   #116
The Starter
 
drew54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: IOWA
Age: 31
Posts: 1,290
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Sorry Jason, seems the same to me.

Campbell wasn't told of trade | Washington Examiner

No respect at all.
__________________
No pressure, no diamonds.
drew54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 02:58 PM   #117
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,696
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew54 View Post
Sorry Jason, seems the same to me.

Campbell wasn't told of trade | Washington Examiner

No respect at all.
I posted this somewhere as well but Campbell has said different things regarding how he found out. He has told different people "heard it from a reporter" "saw it on tv" "got a text" "Coach called"
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 03:01 PM   #118
‎\m/
 
Mattyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 81,853
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I posted this somewhere as well but Campbell has said different things regarding how he found out. He has told different people "heard it from a reporter" "saw it on tv" "got a text" "Coach called"
Honestly at this point I don't care if a little bird told him. Some people get so uptight with this stuff and toss around the "respect" card way too loosely. The NFL is a tough biz, shit happens. Suck it up, move on.

JC is going to be fine.
__________________
Support The Warpath! | Warpath Shop
Mattyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 03:04 PM   #119
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,696
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
Honestly at this point I don't care if a little bird told him. Some people get so uptight with this stuff and toss around the "respect" card way too loosely. The NFL is a tough biz, shit happens. Suck it up, move on.

JC is going to be fine.
Exactly.

On a related note, I think they'll show him "respect" by trading him to a place he'd like to go to.
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 03:05 PM   #120
Registered User
 
BigHairedAristocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,917
Re: Campbell: 'It's just totally different than it used to be'

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Exactly.

On a related note, I think they'll show him "respect" by trading him to a place he'd like to go to.
Really? If Carolina, Buffalo, and Jacksonville are offering 4th rounders and Oaklands offering a 3rd, Campbell better start looking for a house on the west coast.
BigHairedAristocrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.30975 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25