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Different Season, Same Trap

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Old 04-10-2010, 02:28 PM   #91
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

I believe many people are forgetting what good coaching and a good team environment can really do to a team. You can use all the stats in the world but you cant predict what changes in a team and players. My gut tells me we'll be at least 5 games better than last season, because I truly believe this team was horribly coached. Shit most experts thought the Bengals would barely win 4 games last season, and many more thought we would win more than 4.
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Old 04-10-2010, 02:35 PM   #92
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

You know... this research actually tips me toward the McNabb side of the fence! i mean, think of it. The first time around, Joe Gibbs had us dominate teams! I remember games won in a fashion where in the 4th quarter, i felt "Ha ha! We got this!" quite a few times. Ever since, especialy AFTER Norv Turner, I feel like the other team is gonna come back even when we are up by... no ESPECIALY when we're up by 2 scores in the 4th quarter. I want us to sail away with the lead. I want us to be 3 scores up and running! I HATE the fact that we so often SIT on a lead and let the other team feel they are still in it to win!

With McNabb, people will truely 'FEAR' our offense!?!!! We'll have a chance of being a 'high scoring offense' again! You know what... i think i'm coming around. I think McNabb can add at LEAST ten points to our offense per game... i think that's more than enough.
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Old 04-10-2010, 06:03 PM   #93
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

AHA!!!! You have been..........caught in the trap.......
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:50 AM   #94
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

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Originally Posted by Skinny Tee View Post
A lot of those close win/loss games came against teams that didn't end the year with more than 4 wins.

The only way you can truly be excited about this team and its prospects beyond this year is if you're a cowboy, giant or eagle fan. McNabb went to the Pro Bowl as an eagle, not as a Redskin. We know what he can do on the eagles roster but how does that translate to ours?

I don't know why many Skins fans are transferring 100% of his talents and output immediately to our team. We're NOT getting the eagles McNabb, we're getting a McNabb that will play for the Redskins, meaning he will go through a steep learning curve that will be hindered due to our gross lack of offensive linemen help.

Even if we brought in 3 time SB champion, Tom Brady, we wouldn't have the scheme that he was implementing in NE. McNabb's output is going to be drastically different on the Skins. You can say his output will increase coming to a new team but from the looks of our OL and the 3 gaping holes just on our starting line I'd say it's doubtful.


For all those seeing the draft as the answer to our OL problems remember that Okung or any other rookie LT will simply be neutralizing the loss of Chris Samuels. If you remember the start of '09 our OL still sucked when Samuels was able bodied and starting. Now put a standout rookie there and still keep 2 gaping holes on the line and tell me what are McNabb's prospects for this year?

So....what's all the excitement about again?
Eagles pass blocking was pretty bad too. And where's the steep learning curve? He's going to get most of the concepts of the system, probably mostly just terminology differences.

He might not be the best QB in the conference, maybe not the division, but I don't think that he'll stink it up like you make it seem.

How many of the games could be against teams with 4 wins or less? 3? Well we also were very close in games vs 1 team with 11 wins and 2 with 13. I truly believe that when Mike Shanahan said he thought that he could get more out of some of our players than what we have seen from them, he really thinks that and that he can.

Do I think that we're going to the big game? Nah. Do I think that we're worse off with McNabb? Hell no. We'll figure out the line issues or at least use enough pocket movements to help counter the issues, something that we RARELY did in the past few years. Can't fix it all in one year, you can believe that he'll be keeping that line building continuous.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:48 AM   #95
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

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Eagles pass blocking was pretty bad too. And where's the steep learning curve? He's going to get most of the concepts of the system, probably mostly just terminology differences.

Do I think that we're going to the big game? Nah. Do I think that we're worse off with McNabb? Hell no. We'll figure out the line issues or at least use enough pocket movements to help counter the issues, something that we RARELY did in the past few years. Can't fix it all in one year, you can believe that he'll be keeping that line building continuous.
McNabb was bred in the eagles system by Reid, from rookie to Pro Bowl player. All the sudden he plays for a completely new team and coach and it's just the terminology he needs to overcome...doubtful. The last two years with the eagles, Andy Reid was starting to pass drastically more than run so how does that line up with Shanahan's projected run first offense?

That brings up another point...how do you run successfully without an above average line? It all comes back to what improvements can be done to our biggest liability the past two, if not three, seasons.

We still need 4 to 5 solid offensive linemen before we can become competitive. We won't get half of that amount this year so how will we get the rest next?


I'm really not trying to be a downer it's just the story of the Skins chances this season doesn't really hold water with all these holes.
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:01 AM   #96
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

Shanahan is from the Walsh coaching tree. If there's anything difficult about learning a new playbook, it's the "language" part of it. It's highly doubtful Shanahan simply rejected the general "language" scheme of the Walsh O, such as colors defining a formation. Really, they could be considered "dialects" like British English and American English are.

There is at least one news report where it can be safe to infer that he is well ahead of the curve if Kelly or Cooley was the one who said it was like he has been here for the last couple of years.
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:30 AM   #97
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

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Shanahan is from the Walsh coaching tree. If there's anything difficult about learning a new playbook, it's the "language" part of it. It's highly doubtful Shanahan simply rejected the general "language" scheme of the Walsh O, such as colors defining a formation. Really, they could be considered "dialects" like British English and American English are.

There is at least one news report where it can be safe to infer that he is well ahead of the curve if Kelly or Cooley was the one who said it was like he has been here for the last couple of years.
Well let's hope when he's on the field he'll know the "dialect" for "Duck!", "Look out!", and "How many fingers am I holding up?".

...You can't tell me that we're going to have a parallel scheme to what Reid is running with the eagles, especially with the reliance on Westbrook & the pass receiving RB's through much of the latter years. This guy is going to have to through a learning curve whether it be personnel, scheme or both.
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Old 04-12-2010, 03:23 AM   #98
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

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Well let's hope when he's on the field he'll know the "dialect" for "Duck!", "Look out!", and "How many fingers am I holding up?".

...You can't tell me that we're going to have a parallel scheme to what Reid is running with the eagles, especially with the reliance on Westbrook & the pass receiving RB's through much of the latter years. This guy is going to have to through a learning curve whether it be personnel, scheme or both.
Favre certainly had trouble jumping from Sherman's WCO variant to Childress's Philly-based WCO, oh wait, he skipped training camp and STILL put up a monster season....
Then you also wonder how was Jeff Garcia even considered by all those other WCO teams after he left San Francisco. They playbook is simply too foreign and they never would sign him. O wait....

And if the dialect analogy is not satisfactory, perhaps an analogy of first learning Latin accelerating one's ability to learn Italian or any other Romance language is more suitable for your tastes.
What you're saying is more like McNabb is learning Latin and then learning something completely unrelated like Chinese or ancient Egyptian. Something utterly farfetched and ridiculous.
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:09 AM   #99
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

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Favre certainly had trouble jumping from Sherman's WCO variant to Childress's Philly-based WCO, oh wait, he skipped training camp and STILL put up a monster season....
Then you also wonder how was Jeff Garcia even considered by all those other WCO teams after he left San Francisco. They playbook is simply too foreign and they never would sign him. O wait....

And if the dialect analogy is not satisfactory, perhaps an analogy of first learning Latin accelerating one's ability to learn Italian or any other Romance language is more suitable for your tastes.
What you're saying is more like McNabb is learning Latin and then learning something completely unrelated like Chinese or ancient Egyptian. Something utterly farfetched and ridiculous.
What I am more speaking about is fundamentals in scheme and not language of the WCO. The eagles offense relied heavily on short passes to a shifty RB coming out of the backfield. What he won't have here is the same offensive objectives of the short passes to pass catching RB's.

Brian Westbrook's Receptions vs. Clinton Portis's Receptions

2004 - 73 --------------------------> 2004 - 40
2005 - 61 --------------------------> 2005 - 30
2006 - 77 --------------------------> 2006 - 17* (8 games)
2007 - 90 --------------------------> 2007 - 47
2008 - 54 --------------------------> 2008 - 28

Shanahan's RB Receptions

2004 - Droughns & Griffin ----> 42
2005 - Bell & Anderson ------> 36
2006 - T. Bell & M. Bell ------> 44
2007 - Young & Sapp(FB) ---> 49
2008 - Hillis & Bell & Pittman -> 34


Doesn't matter what language you use, McNabb is adapting to a different focus in Shanahan's system. He's a veteran who will be equipped to do so, that's why Shanny wants him, but nevertheless he'll be dealing with a learning curve come time for training camp.
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Old 04-12-2010, 06:28 AM   #100
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

Am I missing all these bullish prediction threads? Sounds like most fans are calling between 7 and 9 wins, which sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Although I do bristle at Saden and Sandtrap's mention of the Redskins' past blunders in this context, as if the poor personal decisions of past regimes has anything to do with the direction being taken by an entirely new management team. What, should Shanahan never sign any veterans just because we overpaid Deion Sanders 10 years ago? Boswell's most recent article does a pretty bang up job anticipating and eviscerating Saden's implied argument: that the signing of McNabb constitutes another instance of "overpaying for veterans in their twilight years," when in fact NFL history suggests it should be viewed very differently.
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:30 AM   #101
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

I think it is completely realistic to think that Shanahan (Kyle since he will be calling plays) will be able to quickly get on the same page with McNabb. Both Kyle and Donovan are going to work with each other, and with Mike to find a comfort zone of play calling. As for the line, McNabbs lines have had issues year in and year out, not to the extent of our 2009, but again, I think we can confidently expect that our line will be upgraded from last year. No coach of Mike Shanahan's stature is going to let that same type of line play repeat itself.
In the end, we will be more competitive in games, but we certainly don't know how that will show itself in terms of win/loss count yet.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:31 AM   #102
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

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I think it is completely realistic to think that Shanahan (Kyle since he will be calling plays) will be able to quickly get on the same page with McNabb. Both Kyle and Donovan are going to work with each other, and with Mike to find a comfort zone of play calling. As for the line, McNabbs lines have had issues year in and year out, not to the extent of our 2009, but again, I think we can confidently expect that our line will be upgraded from last year. No coach of Mike Shanahan's stature is going to let that same type of line play repeat itself.
In the end, we will be more competitive in games, but we certainly don't know how that will show itself in terms of win/loss count yet.
very nice post. agreed.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:41 PM   #103
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

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So, you are saying because of THOSE statistics, we can expect more of the same?
If anything, because of those stats, the major upgrade in front office, coaching and QB (and hopefully O-line) should make it very easy to become an elite NFL team quickly.

Zorn wasn't exactly great late in games. (cue the swinging gate play clip)

Even before him, name a Redskins QB since 2000 as capable as McNabb. Yes, even I can concede Campbell is not as good.
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Old 04-12-2010, 01:21 PM   #104
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

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Originally Posted by Skinny Tee View Post
A lot of those close win/loss games came against teams that didn't end the year with more than 4 wins.

The only way you can truly be excited about this team and its prospects beyond this year is if you're a cowboy, giant or eagle fan. McNabb went to the Pro Bowl as an eagle, not as a Redskin. We know what he can do on the eagles roster but how does that translate to ours?

I don't know why many Skins fans are transferring 100% of his talents and output immediately to our team. We're NOT getting the eagles McNabb, we're getting a McNabb that will play for the Redskins, meaning he will go through a steep learning curve that will be hindered due to our gross lack of offensive linemen help.

Even if we brought in 3 time SB champion, Tom Brady, we wouldn't have the scheme that he was implementing in NE. McNabb's output is going to be drastically different on the Skins. You can say his output will increase coming to a new team but from the looks of our OL and the 3 gaping holes just on our starting line I'd say it's doubtful.


For all those seeing the draft as the answer to our OL problems remember that Okung or any other rookie LT will simply be neutralizing the loss of Chris Samuels. If you remember the start of '09 our OL still sucked when Samuels was able bodied and starting. Now put a standout rookie there and still keep 2 gaping holes on the line and tell me what are McNabb's prospects for this year?

So....what's all the excitement about again?
We're excited because so many times having a proven QB is the difference between winning and losing especially the close games.
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Old 04-12-2010, 01:24 PM   #105
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Re: Different Season, Same Trap

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I think McNabb will get up to speed very quickly. He knows the terminology of the system, he just has to get used to a balanced attack instead of throwing 70% of the time.

I do agree about all the elation around his signing. You've got wonder if Vinny did this what everyone's reaction would be. Another high priced, past his prime vet brought in for high draft pick(s).... Granted it's a qb, but still.

On the low end I'd say 7 wins, on the high end I'd say 10.
I was going to say something similar. It's still the WCO, just a slightly different version that focuses on the running game. The verbage is only slightly different like if an American and an Englishman were to engage in a conversation. There might be a couple of words that mean something else, but for the most part they would understand each other.

Example: If an Englishman said that he wanted to blow a fag, the American might be taken back by that statement. Later the American will learn that blowing a fag is slang for smoking a cigarette...McNabb will be fine.
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