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Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

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Old 07-16-2010, 06:01 PM   #16
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

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I bet the Steelers and Pats have been up there in terms of age in the last ten years and look how many championships they have.
The Pats were really young in 2001, and much older in 2003 and 2004. They've been pretty old ever since, but they've also turned over all but three players on their team from the first super bowl year.

Pittsburgh's defense was really old in 2008, which led to their downfall in 2009. However, their offense was, and still is, very young.
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Old 07-16-2010, 06:30 PM   #17
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

It is interesting to see where we and other teams rank. But it is telling that the top teams and the bad teams are scattered throughout the rankings. No real evidence that being real old or young is an advantage to winning.
The other thing is it is not fair for Redskins given that Snyderatto nearly collapsed the talent level on this team. Allen and Shanahan really inherited a mess, when it comes to talent and age of the roster. They have done a great job of gettingus good talent at a good price, just to get us through the next few years while we draft the new blood and develop it. It takes time.
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:14 PM   #18
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

I wouldn't call it a wasteland, but it is pretty darn close. That is why I said in another thread that things really haven't changed all that much so far in Redskins Park for all the hype surrounding. The FA moves were not that spectacular with the $, but we did give away a bunch of draft picks. Look at our offensive backfield. Our Rbs will be lucky to be serviceablein the league for 3 more years. Donovan has 5 if he stays healthy. Santana is the same also. Don't forget those other vet WRs we acquired either. I wouldn't be all that surprised if one of them makes the final roster. We keep going heavy on free agency and we will never build a winner here.
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:19 PM   #19
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

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I wouldn't call it a wasteland, but it is pretty darn close. That is why I said in another thread that things really haven't changed all that much so far in Redskins Park for all the hype surrounding. The FA moves were not that spectacular with the $, but we did give away a bunch of draft picks. Look at our offensive backfield. Our Rbs will be lucky to be serviceablein the league for 3 more years. Donovan has 5 if he stays healthy. Santana is the same also. Don't forget those other vet WRs we acquired either. I wouldn't be all that surprised if one of them makes the final roster. We keep going heavy on free agency and we will never build a winner here.
how much do you expect to change in a matter of months?

they obviously want some vets to help instill the new systems and there really wasn't much young talent available without hefty price tags attached... if someone feels better about a 28 year old vet backup vs a 31 year old vet backup then you're arguing age alone

this was a horrible year to expect young starter acquisitions, lord knows the backlash if we used another pick
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:13 AM   #20
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

People have to stop acting like the roster that Allen/Shanahan inherited REQUIRED that the team deal four draft picks for Donovan McNabb, Adam Carriker, and Jamaal Brown. Those were choices by the front office based on the options available. Those weren't no-alternative moves.

Now, were those all bad moves? I certainly don't think so. If the 2010 team wins a lot of games, those players will all have a bigger role than the TJ Duckett and Jason Taylor trades brought. And perhaps there's an argument to be made that for a 4-12 team, there was a pretty rare opportunity to "strike while the iron is hot."

I just can't begin to explain how screwed up the logical process would be if we needed to acquire veterans in order to be able to draft more young players in later years. Bottom line: this organization has no interest in being good first and young later.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:49 AM   #21
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

The fact the Redskins have quickly become an aged team should come as no surprise. Comparing them to teams like the Saints, Steelers and Patriots, all of whom have won SB's of late can be a little misleading. The core of all those teams have been together for an extended period, where the Redskins have crafted a group of players from different programs around the league with the expectation of them becoming a cohesive unit rather quickly.

The formula being utilized is one which generally leads to a higher turn-over ratio from year to year as the team continues to address it's needs with aging players as opposed to youth. If indeed "the future is now" the way the team is currently being constructed is understandable. It's easy to understand why coaches like Shanahan, that have won big in this league prefer older players. They make fewer mistakes and are less prone to cause problems off the field.
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:27 PM   #22
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

We are not acquiring veterans in order draft more young players later. We had so many important holes to fill and the path they choose seemed to be the most efficient at filling them with quality talent. They drafted a highly regarded LT, added a probowl a QB and a probowl tackle. McNabb and Brown can hopefully provide a higher level of play and more importantly leadership we have not seen in along time. I am by no means saying McNabb and Brown are a guarantee to be great and turn this team around, but they are very important pieces. Jamaal Brown will be a great mentor and take huge pressure off of rookie Trent Williams to be the man at LT. Another rookie would not provide that. This gives him some breathing room which 95% of all rookies need their first year.
I think what this list proves is there is no right (rookies or veterans) way to fill your roster. New Orleans paid a hefty price to get their veteran SB QB. Luckily it worked out for them.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:19 AM   #23
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

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We are not acquiring veterans in order draft more young players later. We had so many important holes to fill and the path they choose seemed to be the most efficient at filling them with quality talent. They drafted a highly regarded LT, added a probowl a QB and a probowl tackle. McNabb and Brown can hopefully provide a higher level of play and more importantly leadership we have not seen in along time. I am by no means saying McNabb and Brown are a guarantee to be great and turn this team around, but they are very important pieces. Jamaal Brown will be a great mentor and take huge pressure off of rookie Trent Williams to be the man at LT. Another rookie would not provide that. This gives him some breathing room which 95% of all rookies need their first year.
I think what this list proves is there is no right (rookies or veterans) way to fill your roster. New Orleans paid a hefty price to get their veteran SB QB. Luckily it worked out for them.
I personally question the idea that you can take a 4-12 team (albeit one that played far above that level for most of the year, finding ways to lose at the end of games) make some splashy veteran acquisitions, make some less splashy veteran acquisitions, have an offseason standoff with your most talented player, and then consider the future to be now.

My problem is that it seems like kind of a crappy future. The focus of the offseason was in the wrong place. The draft should have been the centerpiece of the offseason, instead, it became an afterthought to the McNabb trade. We did what we needed to do in the 1st round (OL), but there was no depth to be had.

Anytime that an average team with one major weakness fills that weakness, you're bound to improve significantly to the point where you can consider yourself a playoff contender. I understand that #5 gives us the best chance to win, this year, out of any of the quarterbacks we were linked to in the offseason -- there seems to be little reason to dispute that -- but that's a very shortsighted reason to pull the trigger on the deal. There's still too many bad players on this team to consider a super bowl run realistic. We'll threaten, make it look like we just might be able to pull it off, but ultimately there's a next step needed that we just don't have the franchise cornerstones to take.

Shortsighted leaders are not what a franchise like the Redskins needs, and that's my big issue here. I don't so much care how good their veteran talent evaluation is, because there's always someone out there who is better at it. I do like what they've done with the offensive line this year, turning a weakness into a relative strength, and giving us a vertical component to our passing game, but it's essentially a one unit improvement on last years team. I think our record will reflect this.
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:38 AM   #24
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

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The fact the Redskins have quickly become an aged team.
quickly become?
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Old 07-18-2010, 06:01 AM   #25
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I completely agree with everything you've said. I've wanted to post something in that regard but you've hit on all the points I wanted to discuss.

The Front Office still lacks foresight as is evident in the Haynesworth signing and subsequent coaching/scheme change, also with the attempt to win it all the year after going 4-12 and seating a new head coach.

The Skins have shown a reluctance to build for future challenges. Each year is a build up to "win it all" instead of looking two or three years ahead and alligning our personnel and scheme to remain competitive year in and year out.

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Old 07-18-2010, 07:31 AM   #26
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

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quickly become?
It appeared for a moment we were considering a youth movement, especially after the 07 season when all our draft picks actually made the roster.

The idea now seems to have shifted more to the way coaches build teams, as opposed to the way GM's do. I know Shanahan is looking to protect his reputation as a winning coach, and that's understandable, but I like others wonder where this collection of aging veterans leaves the long-term future of the team, especially if you don't have instant success with them.

I have always been in favor of building to sustain. [QUOTE] " The race is not run for the swift and the strong, but for him that endureth till the end" [UNQUOTE]
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Old 07-18-2010, 01:17 PM   #27
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

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It appeared for a moment we were considering a youth movement, especially after the 07 season when all our draft picks actually made the roster.

The idea now seems to have shifted more to the way coaches build teams, as opposed to the way GM's do. I know Shanahan is looking to protect his reputation as a winning coach, and that's understandable, but I like others wonder where this collection of aging veterans leaves the long-term future of the team, especially if you don't have instant success with them.

I have always been in favor of building to sustain.
Quote:
" The race is not run for the swift and the strong, but for him that endureth till the end" [UNQUOTE]
This cyncism of the Shanahan-Allen duo is hilarious. I pretty sure Shanahan knows how important the draft is, even if he didn't draft well on defense. He assembled one of the top offensive units in the league though the draft, even if the individual players like Cutler, Mashall, and Schffler are not that great by themselves.
Allen was given a tight budget to work with in Tampa, so basically had to use the draft to acquire talent and hence would understand the value of it.

Not only that, all these contracts are short-term and extremely cap friendly. They will not bog the team down like the Archuleta or Lloyd contracts(or Michael Nylander for the Caps).
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:18 AM   #28
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

This is completely irrelevant...the players limited to "under 25" are a small percentage of all players in the league and many players don't accomplish as much in their first few years anyways. The rookie team leader is the exception to the rule most of the time. Rarely does a player like Adrian Peterson come in and take over the league in their rookie season. Only when a team was desperate at a position is this even possible for a young player to be inserted onto the top of the depth chart immediately. Look how many draft picks there are...many will be out of the league by age 26. Few will be starting and making an impact.

Proof: Look at the mediocre teams on top of this list. The Texans are up-and-coming, well, we'll see how losing Kyle Shanahan affects them.

This is a stat that just doesn't matter, so if the Skins are dead last...it doesn't worry me one bit. It's no secret we've tried to add proven vets to most positional needs, except for Left Tackle. After the worst season I've ever seen, loading up with young players and rookies won't help turn it around immediately. Lets win now. We DO have some great young core players who can be here long term,: Fred Davis, Devin Thomas, Trent Williams, Justin Tryon...many others.

We've had a rough decade, lets get this turned around ASAP.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:40 AM   #29
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

not such a huge surprise.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:52 AM   #30
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Re: Football Outsiders: Redskins dead last in under-25 talent

Well if you look at the list from number one on back its not like the top ten have translated young players into winners. Its not until the middle of the pack do you start to see SB teams.
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