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Old 08-07-2010, 09:57 PM   #31
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Re: Good for Campbell

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Originally Posted by GusFrerotte View Post
That is what got him booted. Statistically he was average, and not all that bad, but he didn't get the job done in the end far too often.
Hell Gus, we all saw Jason ( with plenty of time to throw btw ) throw a pick in the end of a game or just straight miss a bunch of throws. Jason was never good in the clutch.

Did he ever go down at the end of a game and lead us to a victory in the final few minutes?

I can't remember one time Jason ever won us a game, but I can remember plenty of times he lost us games. This is one of many reasons he is gone.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:25 PM   #32
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Re: Good for Campbell

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Originally Posted by GusFrerotte View Post
That is what got him booted. Statistically he was average, and not all that bad, but he didn't get the job done in the end far too often.
I guess we'll never know because i don't consider the trade for McNabb the same thing as Campbell getting booted McNabb is clearly a better QB.
I think a QB gets booted when they just want them gone regardless of who comes in next and i don't think that was the plan.

You plug in JC with the Bengals i don't think they drop off 1 bit from Palmer to Campbell.

At some point fans have to realize top to bottom last year we weren't a good team. FO to Coaching to Running game to WRs to Defense creating TOs.

Very few QBs can get it done alone.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:26 PM   #33
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Re: Good for Campbell

I wish Jason all the best in Oakland. I have always thought he was a stand up guy who exhibited great talents.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:40 PM   #34
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Re: Good for Campbell

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Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07 View Post
Hell Gus, we all saw Jason ( with plenty of time to throw btw ) throw a pick in the end of a game or just straight miss a bunch of throws. Jason was never good in the clutch.

Did he ever go down at the end of a game and lead us to a victory in the final few minutes?

I can't remember one time Jason ever won us a game, but I can remember plenty of times he lost us games. This is one of many reasons he is gone.
Campbell, historically (Saints game aside), was not a very impressive player in the final five minutes of the fourth quarter, but his numbers in the second half were sparkling (93.3 QB rating in 2009) compared to the first half (78.8 QB rating in 2009). And those numbers probably understate things because Campbell lost a second half against the swiss cheese secondary of the Chiefs with underperformance in the first half of that game.

"Clutch" as you say is completely in the eye of the beholder (and probably meaningless). You could say that Campbell folds up in the clutch like a cheap tent, and you'd be right. I could say that he's one of the best QBs in the clutch in the NFL, and I'd be right. It's probably not a conversation worth having.

One thing that's for sure is that Jason Campbell's sack rate goes way down in the clutch. He processes information a lot quicker when everything is on the line. The quality of his decisions doesn't really improve any, things are just done faster.

Ultimately, the only thing that changes in the last five minutes of the fourth quarter of a Redskins game is that the conservative scheme could no longer hide the massive gap in talent on the lines. We bash Zorn's scheme, but when they lost the ability to go underneath, the offense performed about as well as a fish out of water.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:55 PM   #35
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Re: Good for Campbell

Campbell did have two fourth quarter comeback wins (NO '08 and CAR '06), and lost two more on crappy defense (SF '08 and SD '09), so even though his overall numbers drop in "clock" situations, I'd imagine the bottom line for comeback wins comes out right around expectation for a QB who started 52 games on a losing team. Very average, kind of like Jason's tenure here in the general sense.
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:57 AM   #36
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Re: Good for Campbell

One of the big knocks on Jason was always that he wasn't a vocal leader. I think that was a fair criticism, but when you look at the team and how it was run the last few years, I also think you could understand why he never felt like he had the authority to grab guys by the shoulder pads and say "this is my team", either. If you've ever been promoted at a job but knew your boss or your boss's boss didn't really like you, you know what this feels like, and it's difficult to assert any real leadership.

On a team like Chokeland that has been terrible and has had a HUGE talent and leadership vacuum at the QB position, I think it's going to be much easier for him to come in and be more vocal, tell guys to get their shit together, etc. I also think he knows his career is basically on the line, so he should have extra motivation.

I'll be interested to see if he dials the intensity up out there. I hope he does. I don't know if he'll ever be "elite", but I think he can be better than middle-of-the-road, which is what he has been up to this point.
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:20 AM   #37
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Re: Good for Campbell

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Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
Campbell did have two fourth quarter comeback wins (NO '08 and CAR '06), and lost two more on crappy defense (SF '08 and SD '09), so even though his overall numbers drop in "clock" situations, I'd imagine the bottom line for comeback wins comes out right around expectation for a QB who started 52 games on a losing team. Very average, kind of like Jason's tenure here in the general sense.
that Carolina game was an awesome one to attend... Vernon Fox pick on first drive.. Cooley's longest catch/TD, Steve Smith mostly shutdown, ST pick in end zone to seal the game

got to "meet" JC after the game and he signed my kid bros' hats.. cheerleader hugged me on her way out too
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:52 AM   #38
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Re: Good for Campbell

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Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07 View Post
I can't remember one time Jason ever won us a game, but I can remember plenty of times he lost us games.
Panthers game in 2006, while being blitzed hit the pass to Cooley
Saints in 2008, changed the play at the line and hit the bomb to Moss
Bucs in 2009, hit the bomb to Moss in the 4th with 4min to go

You could argue the Saints game in 2006 where he got the bomb to Moss, but I say Rogers more so sealed it with his pick at the end.

In the end, sure he didn't have a lot, but he still did it so saying he didn't is a joke. I honestly don't believe you don't remember any of those, but hey, not all of us have great memory
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:53 AM   #39
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Re: Good for Campbell

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Originally Posted by dgack View Post
One of the big knocks on Jason was always that he wasn't a vocal leader. I think that was a fair criticism, but when you look at the team and how it was run the last few years, I also think you could understand why he never felt like he had the authority to grab guys by the shoulder pads and say "this is my team", either. If you've ever been promoted at a job but knew your boss or your boss's boss didn't really like you, you know what this feels like, and it's difficult to assert any real leadership.

On a team like Chokeland that has been terrible and has had a HUGE talent and leadership vacuum at the QB position, I think it's going to be much easier for him to come in and be more vocal, tell guys to get their shit together, etc. I also think he knows his career is basically on the line, so he should have extra motivation.

I'll be interested to see if he dials the intensity up out there. I hope he does. I don't know if he'll ever be "elite", but I think he can be better than middle-of-the-road, which is what he has been up to this point.
Oakland has a very long history of taking talented QBs like Campbell and turning them into winners. Obviously, winning with this Raiders team is relative, and not dissimilar from trying to win with last years Redskins.

The only Raider quarterback to win more than four games in a season since 2002 has been JaMarcus Russell who had five wins in 2008. Kerry Collins had exactly four in 2005. Campbell will probably be expected to best that, and for good reason: he's a lot better than both those guys.
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:56 AM   #40
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Re: Good for Campbell

On a note only remotely related to Jason Campbell, I'm watching all the game film I missed in the busy period last year now, and I've got to say: Twinkle Toes Yoder has to be the worst blocking TE in NFL history. He can't even engage a defender without going to his knees. They used him as a lead blocking fullback on one play, and he hit Akeem Jordan (I think), and bounced a yard backward and fell down. Jordan was stationary and Yoder had a head of steam.

He's also a phenomenal goal line receiver.
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:58 AM   #41
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Re: Good for Campbell

We did get rid of Yoder didn't we?
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Old 08-08-2010, 03:35 AM   #42
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Re: Good for Campbell

Also a potential definition of clutch, passing under pressure:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | The Best (and Worst) Quarterbacks Under Pressure
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Old 08-08-2010, 04:28 PM   #43
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Re: Good for Campbell

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Campbell will probably be expected to best that, and for good reason: he's a lot better than both those guys.
No way Campbell sucks put in Colt!
Those figures must be wrong because um Campbell sucks and he,lol, caused the pressures.

J/K

Good info!
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:42 PM   #44
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Re: Good for Campbell

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This is the least insightful post i've read in a long time. There's no reason to believe JC can't have success in the NFL. He played in one of the toughest football markets (especially for a QB) w/ easily one of the worst o-lines year after year. Very, very few QBs would have been successful in his position.

Oakland gives him a fresh start. He'll improve over last year a little above his historical trend line, which means he'll have a very solid season. And...he's still one of the highest character guys in the game.

...nonetheless our current QB is a super high character guy and knows how to win. McNabb is a franchise talent. Let's all hope he's got a few great years left.
There were tons of reasons to think JC won't have success in the NFL. It's one thing to be optimistic but be a little realistic. Are you implying the raiders are a better team then the Redskins so he will do better this year? How else could you think he will do better?

I hope he does well, just don't see it happening.
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:43 AM   #45
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Re: Good for Campbell

Blache really called good defensive games when Hall wasn't in the lineup. Actually, that's pretty much true of 2008 as well.
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