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Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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Old 08-28-2010, 09:45 PM   #31
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
The Fisher example supports my argument: why not go for two and get some practice? And none of you naysayers has really responded to the question, "Why not?"

The point is simple: the difference between 4 or 5 points is meaningless, a 6 point lead likely is meaningless but might not be. So, in this case, you take the "might not be meaningless" option. Especially in a preseason game, where practicing scenarios is a good idea (see Jeff Fisher).

In the heat of battle, decision-making can become cloudy. This is why even the best coaches keep 2-point charts. I think I am right about Shanny blowing it, but even if I'm not, the arrogance of the practice of not keeping a chart frightens me.

My point is simple. Whether the point is accepted or not by others, I am done here.
I would say: it's preseason for the kickers as well.

I think you raised an interesting point re: Shanahan, his ego, and the 2 pt chart. But if a 4 or 5 point lead gives you a 99.8% chance of avoiding overtime, while a 6 point lead gives you a 95% chance of avoiding overtime, and the point is to avoid overtime at all potential costs, then kicking the x pt is the rational decision.

Unless of course there was a specific play you wanted to try and put on film for the opponent. I mean, we only scored once so that would have been the only opportunity to do so. But in the absence of this specific scenario, the two point chart is not applicable here (and if we did want to practice something, the chart probably wouldn't have played into that either).
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:28 AM   #32
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

I really don't see what the big deal is about not carrying around the 2 point chart. Seems that any experienced coach should have a good sense of when to go for 2. I'd be interested to know how many coaches carry the chart vs not.

As far as the other night, I honestly don't see where that's a go for 2 situation even if it was a regular season game.
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:49 AM   #33
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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I really don't see what the big deal is about not carrying around the 2 point chart. Seems that any experienced coach should have a good sense of when to go for 2. I'd be interested to know how many coaches carry the chart vs not.

As far as the other night, I honestly don't see where that's a go for 2 situation even if it was a regular season game.
Agreed. I think most fans sitting at home can do the remedial math in their head (even after a few Dogfish Head 60 min). Plus I got to think the OC in the box has that ready to go.
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Old 08-29-2010, 01:00 PM   #34
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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Agreed. I think most fans sitting at home can do the remedial math in their head (even after a few Dogfish Head 60 min). Plus I got to think the OC in the box has that ready to go.
Exactly. This is such a non issue.......lol
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Old 08-29-2010, 01:37 PM   #35
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
I really don't see what the big deal is about not carrying around the 2 point chart. Seems that any experienced coach should have a good sense of when to go for 2. I'd be interested to know how many coaches carry the chart vs not.

As far as the other night, I honestly don't see where that's a go for 2 situation even if it was a regular season game.
Yeah, my opinion is that if a head coach needs to go to a chart to make a decision on a 2 pt conversion, he's likely struggling to handle the game management aspect of football from a much wider perspective.

It's free to have the chart on the sideline, but I believe it is rarely practical to use it as the be-all-end-all. If you're down 16 with five minutes to go, and you score a touchdown, the chart says to go for two. If you don't understand the logic behind why the chart says this, I really don't want you coaching my team.
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Old 08-29-2010, 01:43 PM   #36
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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As far as the other night, I honestly don't see where that's a go for 2 situation even if it was a regular season game.
In a regular season game, it's an easy go for two situation. Win probability is unchanged at 4 or 5 points up w/2 minutes to go. It is changed at 6 points up because you at least make the kicker execute the point after.


So while it likely doesn't matter, you've got to make it a six point lead if given the opportunity. If the improbable happens, and they return the kick for a score and get the two point conversion and lead by three (instead of one), a coach will be raked over the coals for missing an obvious opportunity to increase his chances of winning. So while it probably doesn't matter, any time he can hedge against mass criticism, a coach must do it.
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Old 08-29-2010, 01:58 PM   #37
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

Its preseason, and shanny already said he is passing alot more than rushing in order to see and evaluate his WR's. W?L means absolutely nothing in PS, and what the hell does it matter? run a conversion play because they theoretically could miss an extra point attempt if they score a touchdown?

Are you kidding me? LOL. Shanny must not be taking this team seriously. We should can him, and this 2 point conversion that he didnt run just proves he is here for a big payday, and not to win.

DAMN HIM......of all the luck......
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:29 PM   #38
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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Its preseason, and shanny already said he is passing alot more than rushing in order to see and evaluate his WR's. W?L means absolutely nothing in PS, and what the hell does it matter? run a conversion play because they theoretically could miss an extra point attempt if they score a touchdown?

Are you kidding me? LOL. Shanny must not be taking this team seriously. We should can him, and this 2 point conversion that he didnt run just proves he is here for a big payday, and not to win.

DAMN HIM......of all the luck......
Yeah lets start the cowher chant now. LMAO.
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:38 PM   #39
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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In a regular season game, it's an easy go for two situation. Win probability is unchanged at 4 or 5 points up w/2 minutes to go. It is changed at 6 points up because you at least make the kicker execute the point after.


So while it likely doesn't matter, you've got to make it a six point lead if given the opportunity. If the improbable happens, and they return the kick for a score and get the two point conversion and lead by three (instead of one), a coach will be raked over the coals for missing an obvious opportunity to increase his chances of winning. So while it probably doesn't matter, any time he can hedge against mass criticism, a coach must do it.
At least one person sees some of my reasoning. Lol.
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:47 PM   #40
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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At least one person sees some of my reasoning. Lol.

I understand but certain people ripped the Ravens for practicing a fake punt but people want us to practice 2pt conversions. IMO you can't say NO to this but YES to that.
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:30 PM   #41
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

Or, if you miss the 2 point conversion, and the Jets score a touchdown (along with the extra point; making it 18-15), a field goal will only tie the score. But since he went for the higher percentage play (the extra point) a field goal would have beaten the Jets 19-18.
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:43 PM   #42
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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Originally Posted by Mechanix544 View Post
Its preseason, and shanny already said he is passing alot more than rushing in order to see and evaluate his WR's. W?L means absolutely nothing in PS, and what the hell does it matter? run a conversion play because they theoretically could miss an extra point attempt if they score a touchdown?

Are you kidding me? LOL. Shanny must not be taking this team seriously. We should can him, and this 2 point conversion that he didnt run just proves he is here for a big payday, and not to win.

DAMN HIM......of all the luck......
Thank goodness you're just joking
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Old 08-29-2010, 06:55 PM   #43
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

Is sideline reports your blog Smoot?
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Old 08-29-2010, 09:39 PM   #44
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

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Is sideline reports your blog Smoot?
It's a collection of people
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:25 PM   #45
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Re: Top to Bottom, Shanahan Takes Charge

edit for faulty GTripp logic.
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