Something to consider about the defenses performance

#56fanatic · 11-18-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calia

I will say this: our D is last in the league, even though we have enough talent to avoid that distinction. We have a number of guys that would start on virtually any D in the league in Haynesworth (indeed, the Redskins may be the only team that wouldn't start him), Orakpo, Landry, and Fletcher. We also have a number of guys that could start for a number of teams, even if they're not stars, such as Rogers, Carter, McIntosh, Alexander, and Hall. While that leaves a number of folks (and most of our D line) in the "not very good" category, having 8 of 11 guys of reasonable quality -- even by NFL standards -- should not translate to a last-ranked D.

Bottom line: our coaching is clearly, clearly not helping -- whether it's the scheme, coaching up fundamentals, "cardiovascular endurance" (think AH's 3 minute nap in the 4th quarter v. the Eagles) or anything else is up to reasonable debate. That this unit is woefully underperforming is not.

I will only add that the fact our offense has been underperforming (last in NFL on 3rd down conversions, no consistent rushing game (or RB), no consistency in the receiving game (Cooley's hands are only marginally better than Carlos' at this point) does not help, of course. And the D's ability to create turnovers has kept us in and outright won some games. But giving up 415 yards/game will not get it done in this league. Ever.

My point on this is it usually all starts up front. When you dont have the guys up front, everyone else suffers. Now, some schemes, or plays he runs may be questionable. But honestly, the guy is doing what he can with what he has to work with. He literally has zero 3-4 lineman upfront. ZERO! And in my opinion, two LB's that fit. Fletcher and Orakpo. Other two are playing out of position.
with that said, i believe that is why he preached creating turnovers so much during camp. He knew we may struggle with giving up yards and preached stripping, allows people to maybe take a little more of risk in jumping routes.

Regarding Haynesworth, We are the only team in the NFL that knows how to screw that damn thing up. It is pathetic that we signed a guy that was the most dominant Dlineman in the game, and he can't get on the damn field. We absolutely are playing this hand the wrong way. The guy needs to be on the field as much as humanly possible. Put him on the ends, the middle, stand him up..what ever. His ass would be on the field, somewhere, creating problems. But Shanny is so damn egotistical and can't swallow some pride and let the dude play. Our Defense is dead freaking last in the NFL, what do you have to lose by letting the guy play all over the dline and create havoc!??!?! seems pretty damn stupid to me.

MTK · 11-18-2010, 10:31 AM

^^ Any thoughts on the nap he took on the field while Vick scrambled around forever?

Coff · 11-18-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

My point on this is it usually all starts up front. When you dont have the guys up front, everyone else suffers. Now, some schemes, or plays he runs may be questionable. But honestly, the guy is doing what he can with what he has to work with. He literally has zero 3-4 lineman upfront. ZERO! And in my opinion, two LB's that fit. Fletcher and Orakpo. Other two are playing out of position.

But that's just the problem; the 3-4 isn't working, yet he has the personnel for a dominant 4-3. If all you've got is potatoes and carrots, quit trying to force hamburgers down people's throats and start making some stew!

#56fanatic · 11-18-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

^^ Any thoughts on the nap he took on the field while Vick scrambled around forever?

LOL - nope...
that speaks for itself. I just think him being on the field more, and moving him around the line would give him and the defense more oppotunities to make more plays. It is a fact that when he was consistanty on the field, he makes the other guys better. Proven his years in tennessee guys were having better years in terms of sacks and negative plays. As well as here, when he played consistantly. WHEN being the key word. But happy players are better players. that has been proven throughout the NFL. He is our most dominant player on the front line. Like i said, what does this defense have to lose by playing him more? in my eyes nothing, it couldn't get any worse.

Coff · 11-18-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

^^ Any thoughts on the nap he took on the field while Vick scrambled around forever?

I hate to defend that kind of play, but man, down 30 points in the fourth quarter, and AH gets knocked on the ground in the middle of the field and watches Vick start sprinting to the sideline... it's not too hard to empathize with a guy not getting back up.

#56fanatic · 11-18-2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coff

But that's just the problem; the 3-4 isn't working, yet he has the personnel for a dominant 4-3. If all you've got is potatoes and carrots, quick trying to force hamburgers down people's throats and start making some stew!

I honestly dont think that is Hasletts call. Shanny wants this and he gets what he wants. Hell Haslett had to beg Shanny to let him play AH certain ways. His ego will not let the team switch back to the 4-3 fronts because one he will have to play AH more frequently and he is bound and determined to play with out him. Plus it would admit he made a bad decision on switching this year, which he isn't going to admit making any mistakes. EGO is just that big.

skinsfan69 · 11-18-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

and they lost Rod Woodson, Deon Figures, and Chad Brown to free agency after 1996

Who cares what he did back then? So far I don't think I've seen this guy make an in game adjustment yet.

Longtimefan · 11-18-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coff

I hate to defend that kind of play, but man, down 30 points in the fourth quarter, and AH gets knocked on the ground in the middle of the field and watches Vick start sprinting to the sideline... it's not too hard to empathize with a guy not getting back up.

On the 50yd. touchdown run by Jerome Harrison that made the score 28-0, I saw multiple payers laying down. Our old standard whipping boy just happened to stand out. My little league team tackles better than # 23. Oh! that's right I forgot, he wasn't brought here to tackle, just to get INT's. Great job.

freddyg12 · 11-18-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I honestly dont think that is Hasletts call. Shanny wants this and he gets what he wants. Hell Haslett had to beg Shanny to let him play AH certain ways. His ego will not let the team switch back to the 4-3 fronts because one he will have to play AH more frequently and he is bound and determined to play with out him. Plus it would admit he made a bad decision on switching this year, which he isn't going to admit making any mistakes. EGO is just that big.

From one of J. Reid's insider posts, he said something to the same effect, that Haslett had to convince Shanny that AH should play in the nickel. Given the poor state of this D, particularly the d-line, I would love to see AH start at RE & move around per the down situation.

I agree that it's Shanahan sticking to his guns, he got in the standoff w/AH & won't give in. I understand why, he's in the process of changing the team culture. I think the same rationale explains why Galloway is playing & D. thomas got cut.

Longtimefan · 11-18-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddyg12

From one of J. Reid's insider posts, he said something to the same effect, that Haslett had to convince Shanny that AH should play in the nickel. Given the poor state of this D, particularly the d-line, I would love to see AH start at RE & move around per the down situation.

I agree that it's Shanahan sticking to his guns, he got in the standoff w/AH & won't give in. I understand why, he's in the process of changing the team culture. I think the same rationale explains why Galloway is playing & D. thomas got cut.

Just put Albert in the game and let him play any position he want's on the D/L.

In order for Shanahan to change the culture, he first has to know and understand a little history and that may take a while. Right now he has no idea.

SirClintonPortis · 11-18-2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddyg12

From one of J. Reid's insider posts, he said something to the same effect, that Haslett had to convince Shanny that AH should play in the nickel. Given the poor state of this D, particularly the d-line, I would love to see AH start at RE & move around per the down situation.

I agree that it's Shanahan sticking to his guns, he got in the standoff w/AH & won't give in. I understand why, he's in the process of changing the team culture. I think the same rationale explains why Galloway is playing & D. thomas got cut.

Changing the culture is one of the most bullshit excuses I've ever heard. We jettisoned a good deal of old vets and could have jettisoned Haynesworth too, but Shanahan wanted to keep him on board as a pet project to turn him into a nose tackle. However, the thing is that defense has never been his specialty, and he changed things waaay too much.

As for everyone besides Portis(and he's been a good soldier this year), who on the current roster was suffering from the evil "culture"? Lorenzo? Moss? Fletch? Hall(who felt loved here)?

Dread-Skin · 11-18-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

Our D is pretty much rated last what is there to figure out?

Boy if teams figure out our O then we are really in trouble.

Whats to figure out? our OL cant hold a rush of 4-5 . You can double Moss and shutdown our WR's, our RB's are too bruised/battered and if we fall behind early/often we will abandon the run.

Probably the smartest thing any team can do is contain Banks, keep pressure on McNabb and take away his only 2 targets (moss/cooley). Eventually, the skins will have to take 2-3 yard routes or dumpoffs and 3 and out it b/c we cant do squat on 3rd downs.

sportscurmudgeon · 11-18-2010, 01:56 PM

Someone was mentioning all the Skins' defenders who could "start for virtually any D in the league" and then mentioned:

Landry: You think he starts in Pittsburgh over Polamalu? I don't. How about in Baltimore over Ed Reed? Not this week... Bottom line here is that Landry is better than average but his role as an "impact player" usually is to give up a long TD to the opposition.

Orakpo: Agree here. No team in the league has two OLBs better than Orakpo.

Fletcher: Can he start for either Baltimore or Pittsburgh? No. Would he start over Bradley in Philly? Perhaps but not certainly. Can he start in Chicago or Minnesota? I doubt it.

The Skins' defense has some good players - - but they are not good enough to overcome the lack of skill in so many other players on that unit.

BTW, listing McIntosh here as one of the stalwarts on the defense could set you up for disappointment later on - - because his deal is up this year and I don't know that the Skins even want him back.

calia · 11-18-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Someone was mentioning all the Skins' defenders who could "start for virtually any D in the league" and then mentioned:

Landry: You think he starts in Pittsburgh over Polamalu? I don't. How about in Baltimore over Ed Reed? Not this week... Bottom line here is that Landry is better than average but his role as an "impact player" usually is to give up a long TD to the opposition.

Orakpo: Agree here. No team in the league has two OLBs better than Orakpo.

Fletcher: Can he start for either Baltimore or Pittsburgh? No. Would he start over Bradley in Philly? Perhaps but not certainly. Can he start in Chicago or Minnesota? I doubt it.

The Skins' defense has some good players - - but they are not good enough to overcome the lack of skill in so many other players on that unit.

BTW, listing McIntosh here as one of the stalwarts on the defense could set you up for disappointment later on - - because his deal is up this year and I don't know that the Skins even want him back.

I said "virtually" any team in the league, and I stand by that. There are a few teams where these folks wouldn't start (and I generally agree with your identification of such teams, with the possible exception of the LBs in Minnesota). But my overall point is that there is SURELY enough talent on this D to avoid being last in the league. They're at least a middle-of-the-pack squad (and perhaps better; it isn't as though we lost key players last off-season).

11-18-2010, 10:31 AM	#17
MTK ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 44 Posts: 88,858	Re: Something to consider about the defenses performance ^^ Any thoughts on the nap he took on the field while Vick scrambled around forever? __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

11-18-2010, 01:56 PM	#28
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Re: Something to consider about the defenses performance Someone was mentioning all the Skins' defenders who could "start for virtually any D in the league" and then mentioned: Landry: You think he starts in Pittsburgh over Polamalu? I don't. How about in Baltimore over Ed Reed? Not this week... Bottom line here is that Landry is better than average but his role as an "impact player" usually is to give up a long TD to the opposition. Orakpo: Agree here. No team in the league has two OLBs better than Orakpo. Fletcher: Can he start for either Baltimore or Pittsburgh? No. Would he start over Bradley in Philly? Perhaps but not certainly. Can he start in Chicago or Minnesota? I doubt it. The Skins' defense has some good players - - but they are not good enough to overcome the lack of skill in so many other players on that unit. BTW, listing McIntosh here as one of the stalwarts on the defense could set you up for disappointment later on - - because his deal is up this year and I don't know that the Skins even want him back. __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

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Something to consider about the defenses performance

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