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Old 12-27-2010, 09:24 PM   #1
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Looking Ahead: OL

Where do you think we need to improve along the OL and how?

The OL has improved of late,
But outside of Trent Williams no one has really locked up a spot.
Corey Lichtensteiger and Will Montgomery seem to be chosen by the Shanahan staff as their interior OL of choice.
But, that still leaves at least 2 positions along the OL that need an upgrade.

Priority 1 is updrading the center spot Casey Rabach must be really good at line calls because his actual performance in the run game and sometimes in pass protection has been a liability for years.

Solution? I think Corey Lichtensteiger or Will Montgomery could step in and be an instant improvement at Center that would maintain some continuity along the OL.

That would leave:
LT-Trent Williams
LG-Corey Lichtensteiger
C-Will Montgomery
RG-?
RT-Jamaal Brown??

I think Jamaal Brown has been an overall dissappointment at RT he's didn't fully recover from his injury and it effected his performance to the point that he was rotated w/ Stephon Heyer.
Jamaal Brown has been better recently but recent Redskins history should tell us that rely on a 30 y/o OL coming off 2 injury riddled season isn't a good plan.

I would consider drafting a RT

That would leave 1 remaining hole at RG which could be addressed via FA.

How would this OL look next year:

LT-Trent Williams
LG-Corey Lichtensteiger
C-Will Montgomery
RG-FA Logan Mankins/Davin Joseph
RT-Draftee Derrek Sherrod

or

LT-Trent Williams
LG-Corey Lichtensteiger
C-draft: Steffen Weisniski(spl)
RG-Will Montgomery
RT-draft/FA or gamble on Jamaal Brown staying healthy?
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:33 PM   #2
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

Trent and Brown will probably be penciled in as the Tackles. Id say improvement in the interior is a must. Add Davin Joseph at a guard position in free agency. Let Lickinwhatever, Big Mike Williams, Heyer, Montgomery fight it out at the Guard position, keeping the others as depth. Wildcard could be Cook. I would cut Rabauch after this season and look to add Center in the draft or free agency as well. 2 new starters is probably needed in the interior and the last position be earned with what we have left this year.
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:56 PM   #3
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

Sign Logan Mankins, give Cook a chance at C or draft a C.
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:08 PM   #4
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

A line of Trent Williams, Kory Lichtensteiger, Will Montgomery, Davin Joseph, and Jammal Brown would be more than adequate as a starting five. But we would have almost no depth behind that, even if we were able to re-sign Stephon Heyer.

I would not spend one of our first two picks on an offensive linemen, unless there is a real good value on a tackle when we pick in the first round. Like a top five type talent. Otherwise, I would use picks on the third day to supplement the depth on the offensive line. Re-signing Heyer is a major priority this offseason. Brown, I think, is less of a priority, because I think the franchise tag makes some sense for him.

I would also be alert in free agency for a center who might be an improvement on Montgomery. Maybe the Lions could be willing to part with Dominic Raiola in an Albert Haynesworth deal?
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:13 PM   #5
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

The other thing I would point out is that Will Montgomery is not capable playing RG in deference to a big-name college center. He was dreadful last year at the position, and he was really not much better this year. Montgomery, I think, can be an adequate center, and a large upgrade there over Rabach. I also know we can do better. But when you have so many holes to fill and have to add a quarterback somehow (which will be expensive), maybe an adequate center is all we can hope for.
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:30 PM   #6
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

I posted this in another thread but to be honest it didn't really fit. This thread is perfect for it.

Basically these are the best lineman drafted (or undrafted) by Shanahan during his days in Denver.

Quote:
1996
Dan Neil - Guard - 3rd round - (104 Career Starts)
Matt Lepsis - Tackle - Undrafted (133 Starts at LT, 2005 SI All-Pro)

1999
Lennie Friedman - Guard - 2nd round last pick (Former Redskin)

2000
Cooper Carlisle - Guard - Round 4 - 2000 (2 Year Starter in Denver, Current Starter in Oakland)

2001
Ben Hamilton - Center/Guard - Round 4 (Former Bronco 110 Career Starts, Pushed out By McDaniels Regime)

2004
George Foster - Tackle - Round 1 (Bust, Out of the League, Known for infamous cut block)

2005
Chris Meyers - Center/Guard - Round 6 (Current Texans Starter)

2006
Chris Kuper Guard - Round 5 - (Current Bronco's Starter)

2007
Ryan Harris -Tackle - Round 3 (Current Bronco's Starter)

2008
Kory Lichtensteiger - Guard - Round 4 (Current Redskins Starter)
Ryand Clady - Tackle- Round 1 (One of the best tackles in the game)
What I learned from this is that rounds 4 through 6 seem to be the sweet spot for interior lineman. The only first round picks Shanahan was willing to use on Lineman was Left Tackles. His two most recent right tackles have come from 3rd round picks (Ryan Harris and Jamaal Brown). It would be nice to see Cook and Capers to become the first successful 7th round lineman under Shanahan.

We can also look at Houston and add Duane Brown to the stack of evidence that says the only first round lineman acquired by a team running the Shanahan/Kubiack offense are blind side tackles. Seeing as how we don't have a pressing need at Tackle (at least in terms of starters) I think it's safe to say that we'll wait this one out.



As for the current state of the line. Well I personally think they have a great foundation with Williams, Brown, and Kory L. Heyer is the very definition of serviceable but I would feel more comfortable if we got a slightly more reliable swing tackle.

We've heard very little about Cook and Capers this year. It would be awesome if one of them could develop into a starter but we should at least be able to turn one of them into a reliable backup.

Montgomery is currently turning out to be a decent find but I would feel more comfortable if we could find someone good enough to beat him up.
out

I think we can all agree that Rabach needs to go. He was very good at one point but week after week we keep on seeing him get put in the backfield.


Personally I'm not to big this year on going after every big name free agent we can fly on Redskin One but if he's available Carolinas Ryan Kalil would be perfect. This is a sub 300 pound guy with a skillset tailored for zone blocking. The fact that he's dones so well in a power blocking scheme is a testement to his talent level. He'll be 26 next year and with his dedication to playing with proper technique he could easily stay productive into his 30's. I don't care if we have to pay him more then Nick Mangold. He's a perfect fit for this team and could easily go a long way towards fixing this line.

Logan Mankins I'm kind of torn on. He's 28 right now so he'll be 29 next year. Plus he would fit into the whole trying to buy a championship win now strategy. He's definetely a top level lineman but by the time we're competitive he would be on the back end of his career. Probably better to try and develop from within unless you can find a Ryan Kalil type player at Guard.

If we can't get Kalil one guy I would love to see us go after is Florida States Rodney Hudson in the second round. I'll post more on him later however safe to say he's a top notch Center prospect that would fit perfectly in the zone scheme.

Anyway based on Shanahan's history I think we would be well served to draft either multiple interior lineman in the 5th round or trade up into the 4th and find a guy that fits our scheme assuming thats where these prospects are valued at. Personally my understanding of the mid round prospects is limited at this point. If we can trade McNabb for a 4th round pick then all the better.

The main thing we need right now is to get a pipeline going of mid to late round prospects that we can develop and eventually form a line thats around 7 players deep. Last year was a great start. We got a cornerstone LT. A great RT prospect for the next 3 or 4 years in Brown (assuming he continues to get healthy), and a decent hard working Shanahan lineman type in Kory L. How Cook and Capers develop will obviously effect how we look back but either way no one can say we ignored the O-Line last offseason. It'll probably be scaled back this offseason but hopefully the effort to keep bringing guys in and developing them will continue in 2011.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:15 PM   #7
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
I posted this in another thread but to be honest it didn't really fit. This thread is perfect for it.

Basically these are the best lineman drafted (or undrafted) by Shanahan during his days in Denver.



What I learned from this is that rounds 4 through 6 seem to be the sweet spot for interior lineman. The only first round picks Shanahan was willing to use on Lineman was Left Tackles. His two most recent right tackles have come from 3rd round picks (Ryan Harris and Jamaal Brown). It would be nice to see Cook and Capers to become the first successful 7th round lineman under Shanahan.

We can also look at Houston and add Duane Brown to the stack of evidence that says the only first round lineman acquired by a team running the Shanahan/Kubiack offense are blind side tackles. Seeing as how we don't have a pressing need at Tackle (at least in terms of starters) I think it's safe to say that we'll wait this one out.



As for the current state of the line. Well I personally think they have a great foundation with Williams, Brown, and Kory L. Heyer is the very definition of serviceable but I would feel more comfortable if we got a slightly more reliable swing tackle.

We've heard very little about Cook and Capers this year. It would be awesome if one of them could develop into a starter but we should at least be able to turn one of them into a reliable backup.

Montgomery is currently turning out to be a decent find but I would feel more comfortable if we could find someone good enough to beat him up.
out

I think we can all agree that Rabach needs to go. He was very good at one point but week after week we keep on seeing him get put in the backfield.


Personally I'm not to big this year on going after every big name free agent we can fly on Redskin One but if he's available Carolinas Ryan Kalil would be perfect. This is a sub 300 pound guy with a skillset tailored for zone blocking. The fact that he's dones so well in a power blocking scheme is a testement to his talent level. He'll be 26 next year and with his dedication to playing with proper technique he could easily stay productive into his 30's. I don't care if we have to pay him more then Nick Mangold. He's a perfect fit for this team and could easily go a long way towards fixing this line.

Logan Mankins I'm kind of torn on. He's 28 right now so he'll be 29 next year. Plus he would fit into the whole trying to buy a championship win now strategy. He's definetely a top level lineman but by the time we're competitive he would be on the back end of his career. Probably better to try and develop from within unless you can find a Ryan Kalil type player at Guard.

If we can't get Kalil one guy I would love to see us go after is Florida States Rodney Hudson in the second round. I'll post more on him later however safe to say he's a top notch Center prospect that would fit perfectly in the zone scheme.

Anyway based on Shanahan's history I think we would be well served to draft either multiple interior lineman in the 5th round or trade up into the 4th and find a guy that fits our scheme assuming thats where these prospects are valued at. Personally my understanding of the mid round prospects is limited at this point. If we can trade McNabb for a 4th round pick then all the better.

The main thing we need right now is to get a pipeline going of mid to late round prospects that we can develop and eventually form a line thats around 7 players deep. Last year was a great start. We got a cornerstone LT. A great RT prospect for the next 3 or 4 years in Brown (assuming he continues to get healthy), and a decent hard working Shanahan lineman type in Kory L. How Cook and Capers develop will obviously effect how we look back but either way no one can say we ignored the O-Line last offseason. It'll probably be scaled back this offseason but hopefully the effort to keep bringing guys in and developing them will continue in 2011.
The other luxury we have because we drafted Trent Williams last year and didn't trade up for Sam Bradford (the 'ol cornerstone LT), and got the bookend tackle before year one of the Shanny experiment, is that we can spend those late round picks on interior linemen who have slipped through the cracks and project well at the next level, but are raw from a technique perspective.

If our offensive line had no pieces for the future on it, we'd essentially be in the same place record wise, but would be drafting for need the next two years. The smart choice of Williams allows the Redskins to spend the next two years making value picks on linemen instead of drafting them really early and hoping they can play immediately.

We'll have to go tackle early if we don't bring Jammal Brown back. But that's a discretionary choice on the part of our coaching staff, one they'll only make if they know they can improve at RT otherwise. But I really like our offensive line structure that we have in place. Rabach's release will be a big positive move when we make it, albeit three years too late.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:19 PM   #8
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

My school didn't have very much by way of pro prospects on it's football team this year, but our left tackle should be a nice converted RG or RT at the next level. Not dissimilar to Chris Kuper, who played at the same level five years ago.

Cameron Bradfield 2011 NFL Draft Profile - ESPN
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:53 PM   #9
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

I doubt Logan Mankins leaves the Patriots.
He's a Brady boy.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:03 AM   #10
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Walton View Post
I doubt Logan Mankins leaves the Patriots.
He's a Brady boy.
Given that he held out and wants more money, I think he leaves. Unless Bellichick brainwashes him.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:32 AM   #11
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

--williams--xxxxx----montgomery---xxxxx---brown--

we could use some more interior linemen for sure, but lichtensteiger could still start at left guard if need be. rabach needs to go, he sucks.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:58 AM   #12
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
Given that he held out and wants more money, I think he leaves. Unless Bellichick brainwashes him.
I don't know. Kind of reminds me of Reggie Wayne back in 03 or 04. The Skins were expected to make a strong push for him and he was having issues getting a new contract done but eventually he returned to the team with a better chance of winning. The Pats already got to the doorstep of getting a new deal done with Mankins so I wouldn't be surprised.

Sources: Logan Mankins, New England Patriots deal dead over apology - ESPN Boston
Quote:
But at the last moment, just when both sides thought there would be a deal, talks collapsed over an apology, according to multiple sources familiar with the situation.

About two weeks ago, Mankins and his agent Frank Bauer arrived at the Patriots training facility in Foxborough, Mass., with both sides intending and believing they would be able to hammer out a long-term deal similar to the seven-year, $56.7 million contract that Pro Bowl guard Jahri Evans signed with New Orleans in the spring.

Shortly before the deal could be consummated, the Patriots asked Mankins to apologize to Patriots owner Robert Kraft for comments he made in June, questioning the New England owner's integrity. Mankins did. He called Kraft, apologized and explained why he spoke out in the way he did. It was a nice conversation and it paved the way for Mankins' long-term deal to be consummated.
My gut tells me he goes back. All he needs is something to rationalize it. Kind of like Vincent Jackson currently making a distinction between the team and the front office.
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Old 12-28-2010, 04:33 PM   #13
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

Assuming that Will Montgomery moves to Center, Lichtensteiger stays at LG between RG or RT which do you think is the priority for upgrade?

Hicks/Montgomery or Jamaal Brown/Stephon Heyer?
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:24 PM   #14
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
Assuming that Will Montgomery moves to Center, Lichtensteiger stays at LG between RG or RT which do you think is the priority for upgrade?

Hicks/Montgomery or Jamaal Brown/Stephon Heyer?
Free Agent Route: Sign Kalil and Davin Joesph. Kalil is the real catch here but paired with Joseph. Well not even Suh would be able to get through.

Williams - Kory L. - Kalil - Joseph - Brown

Draft Route: Draft Rodney Hudson in the second and if the draft board permits get one or two guys that fit your system between rounds 4-6

And as promised heres the latest on my newest O-Line man crush

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Old 12-28-2010, 06:52 PM   #15
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Re: Looking Ahead: OL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
Free Agent Route: Sign Kalil and Davin Joesph. Kalil is the real catch here but paired with Joseph. Well not even Suh would be able to get through.

Williams - Kory L. - Kalil - Joseph - Brown

Draft Route: Draft Rodney Hudson in the second and if the draft board permits get one or two guys that fit your system between rounds 4-6
Going w/ your line-up wouldn't it make more sense to draft a RT if you have us signing Kalil and Joseph?

Lets say you could only upgrade 2 positions via draft and FA how would you do it?
e.g.-LT-Trent Williams-LG-Corey Lichtensteiger-Center-Will Montgomery-RD-Davin Joseph-RT Ryan Harris/ 2nd round OT
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