Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


Ongoing CBA discussions

Redskins Locker Room


View Poll Results: Who do you blame for the CBA mess?
Owners 24 26.67%
Players 24 26.67%
Both 42 46.67%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-15-2011, 12:34 PM   #421
MVP
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 47
Posts: 12,382
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

I think it's interesting that the poll has 10 blaming players and 10 blaming owners. and 16 blaming both. I chose the players but easily could have gone with both, so I wonder - for the people who chose both, if you were to put an asterisk beside your vote and say "Both are idiots, but the _____ are slightly bigger idiots" who would you fill in the blank with?
__________________
Dirtbag59, sending songs to oblivion 1 writer at a time.
CRedskinsRule is offline  

Advertisements
Old 03-15-2011, 12:42 PM   #422
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,606
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars View Post
Re-reading this, and my perspective was that of the consumer. I realize that I left out the perspective of the employee (the player).

So, an employee in a market with virtually only one employer. What could happen that requires government regulation to avoid? I guess lockout is the only thing, since an employer should not have the power to deny an employee from practicing their trade in their industry. So, is that all the court will be ruling on -- the lockout? Or will the court decide on the argument of whether the owners will have to show their books?
I believe only on whether they can be locked out
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 12:51 PM   #423
MVP
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pasadena, Md
Age: 47
Posts: 12,382
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Wow ... Adrian Peterson (vikings) from an interview with Yahoo

Quote:
SC: We're talking about 15 minutes after the NFLPA sent in the paperwork to decertify, so the lockout's on everybody's minds. I've talked to a lot of players about this recently, and I always ask the same question — what is the message you want to get out to the people who love the game and are tired of hearing all the labor talk?

AP: We're business-minded, also. It's not just fun and games. A lot of football players, whether it's Sunday or Monday night — we're out there on the field, competing, hitting each other. But people don't see everything else behind it. It's a job for us, too — every day of the week. We're in different states, sometimes thousands of miles away from our families and kids, and a lot of people don't look at it like that. All some people see is, 'Oh, we're not going to be around football.' But how the players look at it … the players are getting robbed. They are. The owners are making so much money off of us to begin with. I don't know that I want to quote myself on that…

SC: It's nothing that I haven't heard from other players, believe me.

AP: It's modern-day slavery, you know? People kind of laugh at that, but there are people working at regular jobs who get treated the same way, too. With all the money … the owners are trying to get a different percentage, and bring in more money. I understand that; these are business-minded people. Of course this is what they are going to want to do. I understand that; it's how they got to where they are now. But as players, we have to stand our ground and say, 'Hey — without us, there's no football.' There are so many different perspectives from different players, and obviously we're not all on the same page — I don't know. I don't really see this going to where we'll be without football for a long time; there's too much money lost for the owners. Eventually, I feel that we'll get something done.

But this crazy idea about an 18-game season … I'm sure they want more entertainment and more revenue, but we're not going to see a pinch of that (the increased revenue), and it's just the business we're in.

SC: It seems to most of the players that if the owners had nothing to hide financially, and if the current business model was as unsustainable as they claim, they'd have no trouble opening the books and showing audited profit and loss per team. Is that your impression?

AP: Exactly! It's like … 'Well, show us.' We want more information, and they want to bull****, going around, saying this and that, just open it up and give us the information we want. If they have nothing to hide, just give us the information. Why not? Obviously, there's a lot to hide -- these guys are professionals, and they're maximizing what they do. But they know that if all this information comes out, the information the players want, it'll be right out there for everyone to see. It's a ripoff — not just for the players, but for the people who work at the concession stands and at the stadiums. The people working at the facilities, you know?

SC: Do you feel that you're represented well by DeMaurice Smith and George Atallah and what now used to be the Players' Union?

AP: Yeah, I think so — they're doing a good job. And with the veteran guys on board, and the player reps, they give us a lot of confidence.
The two bolded statements make it to where I will never see the players side (and I have heard similar statements from multiple players - Winston Justice saying that they are not better off than 5 years ago, Drew Brees, etc)
__________________
Dirtbag59, sending songs to oblivion 1 writer at a time.
CRedskinsRule is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 12:51 PM   #424
‎\m/
 
Mattyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 80,576
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
I think it's interesting that the poll has 10 blaming players and 10 blaming owners. and 16 blaming both. I chose the players but easily could have gone with both, so I wonder - for the people who chose both, if you were to put an asterisk beside your vote and say "Both are idiots, but the _____ are slightly bigger idiots" who would you fill in the blank with?
Owners
__________________
Support The Warpath! | Warpath Shop
Mattyk is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 12:52 PM   #425
Pro Bowl
 
53Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kill Devil Hills, N.C.
Posts: 7,391
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

*Players. The owners are making a lot of money as they should be. The players are also...enough to be financially secure for the rest of their lives after a relatively short career that also opens a lot of doors for them after their playing days are over. I don't see many guys turning down a chance to play in the NFL. Don't kill the goose that laid the golden egg. It's a pretty good gig, if they don't think so....find another line of work and see how "fair" you think that is.
__________________
"Cautiously And Optimistically... Looking Forward To Change"
53Fan is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 12:55 PM   #426
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,442
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
Wow ... Adrian Peterson (vikings) from an interview with Yahoo



The two bolded statements make it to where I will never see the players side (and I have heard similar statements from multiple players - Winston Justice saying that they are not better off than 5 years ago, Drew Brees, etc)
The part about modern-day slavery is ridiculous, I agree. Players don't have to play. And, if slaves get paid $5 mil. a year, sign me up for slavery!
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 12:57 PM   #427
‎\m/
 
Mattyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 80,576
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

I just have a problem with the owners saying yeah, we're gonna need to take a billion back from you. Why? Just trust us.

That shit doesn't fly. I've got no problem with them saying they need that $$ back, just prove it. Guaranteed that more than few owners are hiding some shady shit on their books. And then you have owners in Buffalo and Cincy that won't sell naming rights to their stadiums and are passing up on a big revenue stream.
__________________
Support The Warpath! | Warpath Shop
Mattyk is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 01:11 PM   #428
Playmaker
 
freddyg12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,540
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
I think it's interesting that the poll has 10 blaming players and 10 blaming owners. and 16 blaming both. I chose the players but easily could have gone with both, so I wonder - for the people who chose both, if you were to put an asterisk beside your vote and say "Both are idiots, but the _____ are slightly bigger idiots" who would you fill in the blank with?
I would say players, but only because they didn't take the deal the owners proposed & opted to decertify, which may hurt them in the long run. Time will tell of course. i.e. at this point in time, I see the players taking a bigger risk here and I'm not convinced that its worth if for them. If they get less than what the owners last proposed, they will indeed wear the title of "slightly bigger idiots." (in terms of sheer mass they are more than 'slightly bigger' though)

Overall, though, the owners must accept blame for agreeing to that deal in 06 knowing that it wasn't acceptable to them long-term. That IMO has created this mess, which could've taken place in 06 rather than now. So to answer the question, I'll say players, but that in no way should mean I'm blaming the players moreso than the owners, that's why I voted 'both.'
freddyg12 is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 01:51 PM   #429
Quietly Dominating the East
 
Hog1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 8,989
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
The NFL is a unique situation. I cringe when people try to relate what's going on to other businesses. Totally apples and oranges. Not even in the same ballpark.
How so?
__________________
Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios
thankyou Joe.......
Win! Always win!
By fair means or foul, by soft words and hard deeds...
by treachery, by cunning, by malpractice...
but always win--Edward Teach
Hog1 is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 02:09 PM   #430
Playmaker
 
over the mountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: baltimore
Posts: 3,189
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

A coal miner or auto factory worker is easy to replace; nfl caliber football players .. not so much.

To clear up my confusion re. the great offer the NFL says the NFLPA walked away from . .that great offer was about concessions the NFL had made to the extra 1 bil they originally demanded in their initial offer?

I dont blame the NFL for trying to start negotiations at their artifically unreasonably high initial offer (i.e. we want 2 bil off the top before we agree on how the other 7 bil gets split), but to only make concessions as to that extra arbitrary 1 bil you demand does not make a great or fair offer and to present that to the NFL fans as the NFL's good faith effort is insulting to me from what lil I know.

No wonder negotiations went nowhere. Did the NFL really believe the NFLPA would count their blessings that the NFL would consider reducing their extra 1 bil demand? If that was the starting point, its no wonder they never got anywhere.

I still think this thing gets resolved in the next 4 months. Each sides dream scenario is out the window now, off the table and hopefully they can start to make honest concessions and not cling to pie dreams.

everything is of my opinion.
over the mountain is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 02:13 PM   #431
Playmaker
 
Slingin Sammy 33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,320
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
I just have a problem with the owners saying yeah, we're gonna need to take a billion back from you. Why? Just trust us.

That shit doesn't fly. I've got no problem with them saying they need that $$ back, just prove it. Guaranteed that more than few owners are hiding some shady shit on their books. And then you have owners in Buffalo and Cincy that won't sell naming rights to their stadiums and are passing up on a big revenue stream.
$1B was the initial bargaining point. They came way down from that. The owners have provided a lot more financial data than "Just trust us".

The NFLPA knew the owners weren't going to give them the financial data they've requested. The owners would be insane to do that. The owners have never provided that level of financial data before. D. Smith wanted to get this into the courts all along. It's where he's comfortable and where the NFLPA thinks they have the best chance for success. That's probably why the NFLPA elected Smith in the first place. They know they can't survive a lockout once game-checks get missed, the players will crack at that point.
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' — Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.
Slingin Sammy 33 is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 02:13 PM   #432
‎\m/
 
Mattyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 80,576
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Good article before all this mess

The NFL's Win-Win Labor Agreement: Why Collective Bargaining Works Well
__________________
Support The Warpath! | Warpath Shop
Mattyk is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 02:19 PM   #433
Pro Bowl
 
53Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kill Devil Hills, N.C.
Posts: 7,391
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Business owners have never had to tell me how much money they make or why. I sure as hell don't tell my employees how much I make. I pay them a competitive wage and if they can do better somewhere else God bless them. Some of these players have degrees in fields that they could turn into very lucrative careers. Why do they choose the NFL? The love of the game can only carry you so far. Loads of money, fame, sex, whatever.....like I said before, not a bad gig.
__________________
"Cautiously And Optimistically... Looking Forward To Change"
53Fan is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 03:16 PM   #434
Registered User
 
BigHairedAristocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,917
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
I just have a problem with the owners saying yeah, we're gonna need to take a billion back from you. Why? Just trust us.

That shit doesn't fly. I've got no problem with them saying they need that $$ back, just prove it. Guaranteed that more than few owners are hiding some shady shit on their books. And then you have owners in Buffalo and Cincy that won't sell naming rights to their stadiums and are passing up on a big revenue stream.
First of all the owners arent asking for any money back. They are asking to pay the players less in the future. And Who cares whether the owners "need" the more money in a future deal or not? It's a negotiation and both sides have the right to ask for more of the pie. Finally, according to the league, they offered the union even more than what they asked for in terms of financials and the union didn't even look at it...

In my opinion all the evidence points toward the union negotiating in bad faith.
BigHairedAristocrat is offline  
Old 03-15-2011, 03:30 PM   #435
‎\m/
 
Mattyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 80,576
Re: Ongoing CBA discussions

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat View Post
First of all the owners arent asking for any money back. They are asking to pay the players less in the future. And Who cares whether the owners "need" the more money in a future deal or not? It's a negotiation and both sides have the right to ask for more of the pie. Finally, according to the league, they offered the union even more than what they asked for in terms of financials and the union didn't even look at it...

In my opinion all the evidence points toward the union negotiating in bad faith.
Semantics. Whatever you want to call it, they should still prove their revenues have decreased if that's the reason they are using to support their need for that money. Bad faith is saying trust us, we need the money but we're not going to show you why.
__________________
Support The Warpath! | Warpath Shop
Mattyk is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.53469 seconds with 10 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25