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Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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Old 06-29-2011, 11:16 PM   #601
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

Davin Joseph's wishes
Davin Joseph | Buccaneers | Interested: Redskins?, Buccaneers?,Patriots?, Cowboys?, Cardinals?

Looking around the league, there are a handful of teams that could use an upgrade on their interior offensive line, and Davin Joseph is poised to hit unrestricted free agency once the league business year begins. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers appear to want him back, but would he rather test the market and cash in, as is his right?When asked Tuesday if he could predict where he'd be playing this fall, Joseph revealed the nuanced nature of negotiations in pro sports.

"Gosh, it is tough. If you ask me what I want to do versus what is going to happen it is two different scenarios," Joseph noted, per Pewter Report. "I want to stay. I want to stay, but I have to do what is best for me and my family. That is the hard part about free agency. You build something here. You love your coaches. You love the players. You love the community but at the end of the day it is a business, so it is a tough decision to make. Hopefully everything makes sense for me to stay here."

Translation: Pay me, Glazer family.


The good news is, the Bucs are one of the teams that will need to spend money to get to the salary floor -- which could be a bigger story this offseason than teams trying to stay under the cap, in the opinion of ESPN AFC South blogger Paul Kuharsky. His NFC South-based colleague Pat Yasinskas explained back on June 23 how this might affect things this offseason:

Tim Kavanagh
Pat Yasinskas Don't expect a veteran influx
"There's been talk that a new agreement could require all teams to use somewhere near 90 percent of the salary-cap space. That means the Bucs theoretically would have to spend somewhere close to $50 million in cap space to meet the minimum. Could that lead to the Bucs being players in free agency? Yes, but I don't think you'll see them going crazy. They have some of their own free agents (like Joseph and Cadillac Williams) that they want to keep. The Bucs also have some other young players under contract for the moment that could be in line for contract extensions. Tampa Bay's in a youth movement and the Bucs will do their best to keep their core intact first. They could make some moves in free agency. But I don't expect to see them going out and signing a bunch of big-name free agents who are in their 30s."
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:19 PM   #602
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
I still would love to get Orton somehow.
I have been saying that since before the draft. He would be the best pick up of any of the names thrown around by far IMO. I would be ecstatic if that happened.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:30 AM   #603
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

Kevin Kolb is the only one of those mentioned who I think could possibly be a long-term solution as a starting QB. I think he's a good player who simply was beaten out by a better player. I hate to think of trading with Philly again, but what about trading Fat Albert and a pick to Philly for Kolb?

I really don't understand the excitement over Orton. He's no better than Grossman. We might as well keep Grossman since he already knows the offense.

I suspect that John Beck is the new Babe Laufenberg. Once he has to actually play in real games, he'll lose his nice, high paid job as a professional bench warmer.

Part of me wants the Skins to lose enough to draft Andrew Luck. I would hate that but it might be the only way for us to get the Franchise QB I think we need.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:40 AM   #604
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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Part of me wants the Skins to lose enough to draft Andrew Luck. I would hate that but it might be the only way for us to get the Franchise QB I think we need.
NEVER plan for a future QB to "save" the franchise. It has backfired on many teams, many times.

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Old 06-30-2011, 09:55 AM   #605
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

Season hasn't even started and I'm worn out from the Luck BS and talk of tanking the season.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:56 AM   #606
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan View Post
Kevin Kolb is the only one of those mentioned who I think could possibly be a long-term solution as a starting QB. I think he's a good player who simply was beaten out by a better player. I hate to think of trading with Philly again, but what about trading Fat Albert and a pick to Philly for Kolb?

I really don't understand the excitement over Orton. He's no better than Grossman. We might as well keep Grossman since he already knows the offense.

I suspect that John Beck is the new Babe Laufenberg. Once he has to actually play in real games, he'll lose his nice, high paid job as a professional bench warmer.

Part of me wants the Skins to lose enough to draft Andrew Luck. I would hate that but it might be the only way for us to get the Franchise QB I think we need.
Check their numbers, especially their W/L records.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:09 AM   #607
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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All those guys you pictured were busts, no doubt about it. But, those teams didn't plan on loosing out to get on of those guys.

Jamarcus russell for example wasn't a thought until draft time.

The difference between Luck and these guys is that Andrew Luck has been a thought for close to a year now about him being possibly the next Peyton Manning, and he's backed it up playing in a tough conference in a pro style offense, making bad/ok/decent/good players look like all conference guys.

I understand why you wouldn't want to lose out, because who knows this guy could be a bust. But my question to you is "Can't any player be a bust?"

The thing that separates Andrew Luck from any other player drafted in the past 13 years is simply that EVERYONE thinks that he'll be a good pro. It's not like for every 9 football analysts you get 1 that isn't a fan of Luck or thinks that he's mediocre. This player is different from the past thousands of players drafted in a long time (Tom Brady's argument could go here) being that he is being compared to Peyton Manning, and is considered to be the most 'sure-thing' safest pick in the draft. It's not like we heard about this guy come the draft like Russell, It's not like this guys had only one good year. It's not like he plays in a QB friendly offense.

Lets say Luck goes out there this year and tears his ACL. Guess what, I'm still taking him. Why? He's the kind of player, like Manning or Brady, that doesn't need his feet, (even though he certainly can run [que Youtube video of him truck the cal player]). Also if Bradford could hurt his throwing badly, twice in one season and still be the first overall pick, Luck can still be the first pick.

Yes I understand what you want to say now, "Luck can still just be a flat out bust." True, any player can be a bust. It's just that Luck is the most certain, and safest pick of the busts that there are. Any other year or any other player I wouldn't be going on with this argument and I would say "Yeah he could be a bust; theres no point in loosing out."

Lets say we loose out and Lucks a complete bust (very doubtful), then hey guess what its not your fault because everyone was high on this guy. It's not like there was one of those football analysts saying "I dont like him, Don't think the skins should pick him, told you so."
It's like "wow I'm surprised he didn't turn out." Just picking andrew luck, bust or not gets GM's and HC's an extra couple of years as well, media wise.

I know skins fans right now are saying don't throw the season away. But come on guys, you think we're playoff material? Our QB is who again? Our OLine is ranked what in the nfl? Exactly, so shut up, prepare to loose regardless of trying to play and be competitive or trying to get andrew luck.
Ugh.

No one doubts that Luck is a supreme talent. So the argument that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread is pointless.

The argument against you is simple: you don't root for your team to lose. Ever. Period.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:18 AM   #608
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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Ugh.

No one doubts that Luck is a supreme talent. So the argument that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread is pointless.

The argument against you is simple: you don't root for your team to lose. Ever. Period.
You would think that is self-explanatory.



Hey what if we play for the first pick overall, then trade it to the Browns for their 2 1sts, a 4th and the next year's first!!! [/sarcasm]
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:19 AM   #609
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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I know skins fans right now are saying don't throw the season away. But come on guys, you think we're playoff material? Our QB is who again? Our OLine is ranked what in the nfl? Exactly, so shut up, prepare to loose regardless of trying to play and be competitive or trying to get andrew luck.
We are not playoff material, but your strategy for rebuilding a team shouldn't' be to tank a season. Trust me, I am all about rebuilding, but just to lay down before the season even starts is just ridiculous. If you are going to approach every game this season with the thought that you wish the team loses, then why even bother being a fan of the team or even watching the game. I know it is going to take a lot to rebuild this team, and not just at the QB position, but tanking for the sake of tanking is just a stupid argument.

PS: And I guess it is time for me to start calling you a Cowboys fan just like when you wanted the team to tank so we could get Sam Bradford.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:24 AM   #610
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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All those guys you pictured were busts, no doubt about it. But, those teams didn't plan on loosing out to get on of those guys.
Really that ought to end the discussion. No team PLANS on losing out, Indy didn't plan on losing out to get Manning, Brees was traded, Brady was a 6th round pick. Can you name even 1 instance where a team so completely tanked a season (on purpose) due solely to the possibility of drafting a specific player in the next season's draft? I can't. If you can, how did it work out for that team? Was there an Epic Dynasty that I missed out on where a team used that strategy?
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:33 AM   #611
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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Check their numbers, especially their W/L records.
I checked the numbers and I see that Orton put up better numbers in Denver than he did in Chicago. I suppose he could be decent here.

I guess that the opinion I have of Orton is still colored by the mental image I have of Orton and Grossman in Chicago taking turns stinking out the joint.

BTW, I don't really want to see the Skins tank the season so they can draft Andrew Luck. I always want them to play to win. I'm just frustrated because I can't foresee how we're going to get the QB we need to become a contender.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:41 AM   #612
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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and how did he do last year? Oh wait thats right he did good with crappy receivers and was offensive ROY. thanks for reminding me of that, that just adds to my argument as to why we should get luck. Btw, if there is a possible way of getting him without having the first pick, let me know, because loosing out is the only way I can think of getting him.
Cowboys Fan,
He did great because he went to a team that was in the right situation for him (a young up and coming offensive line, an aging but stud of a RB, and a weak division). Obviously the "insert good QB here" didn't work when we got McNabb (although I wouldn't compare McNabb to Bradford). Plus Bradford would have gotten killed with Heyer at LT, he'd be in IR right now.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:43 AM   #613
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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Teams aren't going to publicly address to the media "We the ___, plan to loose out this season in hopes of getting this player" Loosing out would be playing players that you know aren't good against there matchups and taking out reasonable/winning starters, for unprovens/rookies. It would be like Shanahan saying John Beck go play 16 games you could be that great player for us. Oh wait thats right! Shanahan is doing this already! Internally though he and BA and the coaches are like "We don't have a chance with Luck" and you all are probably going to say well Shanahan will be fired by Snyder if he does this. Wrong! Snyder is in love with Luck because he thinks he'll be the franchise savior, and will bring snyder what he wants most, more fans and more $$$$$$!
So I guess we shouldn't expect to see you posting here during game days, right? I mean what's the point if we are tanking?
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:17 PM   #614
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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Originally Posted by CultBrennan59 View Post
Teams aren't going to publicly address to the media "We the ___, plan to loose out this season in hopes of getting this player" Loosing out would be playing players that you know aren't good against there matchups and taking out reasonable/winning starters, for unprovens/rookies. It would be like Shanahan saying John Beck go play 16 games you could be that great player for us. Oh wait thats right! Shanahan is doing this already! Internally though he and BA and the coaches are like "We don't have a chance with Luck" and you all are probably going to say well Shanahan will be fired by Snyder if he does this. Wrong! Snyder is in love with Luck because he thinks he'll be the franchise savior, and will bring snyder what he wants most, more fans and more $$$$$$!
Loose out?
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:21 PM   #615
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Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011

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All those guys you pictured were busts, no doubt about it. But, those teams didn't plan on loosing out to get on of those guys.
That's because NO ONE does that. They're professionals. Even the Bengals TRY to win. The Lions TRIED to win games in the season prior to getting Stafford. Anyone who thinks teams actually intentionally tank seasons for draft picks is living in la-la land.

There MAY be a rare case where teams will bench some starters at the end of the season for playoff positioning or simply not caring if they win because a spot is locked up and health of stars takes precedence, but in pro sports, I do not believe any team loses on purpose. The 1919 White Sox tried that and it did not end well.

However, these QBs I posted were targeted with high picks and teams invested and lost their futures by investing too much in a QB.

Notice there are a few Redskins QBs on there. Lets not make that mistake again. Our last two Super Bowl teams had some things in common...a SOLID O-line, WR corps, running game and a previously unproven, almost mediocre QB. With support around him, a QB can outplay his talent level. Mortgaging a team's future for 5+ years on a risky QB draft pick is not the road to success. It does work out occasionally, but there is not an Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning in every draft. There are however, many more of the guys I posted above in every draft. It's better to take lower-risk guys to make a QB better than taking a high-risk QB (even if it looks like the sure thing *cough Ryan Leaf*) and forcing him to carry more of the burden on his own because his supporting cast is less talented.

So even if we had the #1 pick in 2012, I'm not sure I'd want Andrew Luck to be taken. A left tackle would be a smarter choice, then move Trent Williams over to fill the RT hole.

It's worked well for the Jets. They've dug themselves out from decades of losing to become contenders with mainly 1st-round offensive line picks. A solid O-line will open up the running game, passing game...and success. The Hogs were proof of that. The Jets' current line is the modern version of the Hogs.



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type-o

lose
In 2 separate posts? :cheeky-sm
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