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Old 05-16-2011, 02:33 PM   #16
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Re: busted trade

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Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
When I first read this thread title, before I opened it, I thought two teams got busted for secretively working out a trade while this owner imposed lockout was in place.
That would be a lot more exciting...I'll start working on the rumor
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Old 05-16-2011, 02:46 PM   #17
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Re: busted trade

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I disagree simply because I can't think of a single 3-4 NFL team with two impact edge rushers. I'm just not convinced Kerrigans impact would be all that different from Ayers (and I liked the fact that Ayers played LB in college).

Also I do not think we would have done all those trade downs after. I would have loved to have Marvin Austin (even though I doubt we would have drafted him anyways).

edit: sorry just remembered the steelers. but still don't think kerrigan is TOO far off from ayers. and I hated how we manipulated the board. We got poor deals in trading down and trading up.
40 times may not matter much in the grand scheme of things, but Ayers' 4.88 is low enough to cause plenty of concern. Kerrigan can hopefully be a much superior version of A. Spencer at least.

Oh, and the moved Timmons to ILB even though he came out as a...guess what, DEFENSIVE END.
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Old 05-16-2011, 03:35 PM   #18
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Re: busted trade

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Originally Posted by skinster View Post
Dan Snyder says Steelers planned to move up to 16 | ProFootballTalk

Akeem ayers and a late 2nd/3rd (adds up perfectly according to draft chart) for kerrigan? anyday. woulda been sweet.
Ayers over Kerrigan? That's like trading a hemi for a simple 6 cylinder. I actually watched film on Ayers the other day and didn't come away nearly as impressed as I did with Kerrigan. Seriously Kerrigan is a Pro Bowl caliber player. The fact that we have him lining up opposite Orakpo is almost as impressive as Suh and Fairly and the fact of the matter is Suh will carry most of the weight in that relationship. Kerrigan and Orakpo could very much be equals.

Kerrigan/Orakpo has the potential to be our Osi/Strahan or even an Osi/Tuck. I'm hesitant to make that trade even if it nets us Rodney Hudson.

Also look out for the Redskins pass rush if they add Franklin and Jenkins. BEAST [/thread]
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Old 05-16-2011, 03:39 PM   #19
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Re: busted trade

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
Ayers over Kerrigan? That's like trading a hemi for a simple 6 cylinder. I actually watched film on Ayers the other day and didn't come away nearly as impressed as I did with Kerrigan. Seriously Kerrigan is a Pro Bowl caliber player. The fact that we have him lining up opposite Orakpo is almost as impressive as Suh and Fairly and the fact of the matter is Suh will carry most of the weight in that relationship. Kerrigan and Orakpo could very much be equals.

Kerrigan/Orakpo has the potential to be our Osi/Strahan or even an Osi/Tuck. I'm hesitant to make that trade even if it nets us Rodney Hudson.

Also look out for the Redskins pass rush if they add Franklin and Jenkins. BEAST [/thread]
I agree. Ayers seemed a little light in the physical run stopping department. Kerrigan is a beast. Anyone that does not see it after watching Kerrigan film does not understand football.
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Old 05-16-2011, 05:35 PM   #20
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Re: busted trade

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Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
I agree. Ayers seemed a little light in the physical run stopping department. Kerrigan is a beast. Anyone that does not see it after watching Kerrigan film does not understand football.
Let me clarify my statements . I would prefer ayers/2nd/3rd to kerrigan not because kerrigan isnt better than ayers. It is clear that he is. But at the same time I do not believe their impact on the field to be all that different for OUR team. My reasoning for this has to do with my own personal philosophies about the 3-4 defense, which I'm sure I will get alot of backlash for expressing.

1. I like one OLB to be a more natural linebacker (how I view harrison/matthews) and one player to be a more natural DE (how I view woodley/ware/hali), I feel the complement each other well. We cannot have two OLB pass rush on every play, so kerrigan/orakpos potential will not be realized. I am worried that it will end up like a Ware/Spencer combo, which I do not like.

2. I think that for our OLBs to be able to effectively do their job, we first need a better DL. I am a big believer in the DE's wrecking enough havoc to free up the OLBs. I think kerrigan's pass rushing talents will not be maximized until we improve our front.

3. I just want to emphasize that I DO want kerrigan over ayers on our team, I just think that the difference between their two impacts on the field given the situation of our team is worth having the late 2nd and late 3rd. Our draft could have had 3 2nd round picks, a first, and a third. That would be sick. After Jarvis Jenkins, we could have had Stephen Paea, Rodney Hudson, Marvin Austin, Daquan Bowers, Torrey smith, Mikel Leshoure and Ben Ijalana are some options we could have taken. And we could have gotten Randall Cobb/ someone else or still have done that miami trade and get hankerson, then Helu at the end of the third without having to give up all those picks.
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Old 05-16-2011, 07:58 PM   #21
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Re: busted trade

Everyone get your pitchforks. Skinster is a Kerrigan hater. Let's show up at his house and intimidate him until he admits that Kerrigan is a BEAST!


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What's weird is that SiriusXM says that Snyder hasn't done any interview since the draft. So I don't know when he said this, or if he even said this. But when asked for more information on this, Sirius just says "what are you talking about? He wasn't on"
I guess if you follow the NFL close enough it was a plausible rumor. I mean after all the word on the street was that the Steelers brass were given permission to almost break the bank with a trade up for the other Pouncy. Still not a bad deal for the brother, sure the football team is up and down and not an annual contender like the Steelers but you get to stay close to home in a beautiful city playing for the one pro team in said city thats appreciated.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:20 PM   #22
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Re: busted trade

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Let me clarify my statements . I would prefer ayers/2nd/3rd to kerrigan not because kerrigan isnt better than ayers. It is clear that he is. But at the same time I do not believe their impact on the field to be all that different for OUR team. My reasoning for this has to do with my own personal philosophies about the 3-4 defense, which I'm sure I will get alot of backlash for expressing.

1. I like one OLB to be a more natural linebacker (how I view harrison/matthews) and one player to be a more natural DE (how I view woodley/ware/hali), I feel the complement each other well. We cannot have two OLB pass rush on every play, so kerrigan/orakpos potential will not be realized. I am worried that it will end up like a Ware/Spencer combo, which I do not like.

2. I think that for our OLBs to be able to effectively do their job, we first need a better DL. I am a big believer in the DE's wrecking enough havoc to free up the OLBs. I think kerrigan's pass rushing talents will not be maximized until we improve our front.

3. I just want to emphasize that I DO want kerrigan over ayers on our team, I just think that the difference between their two impacts on the field given the situation of our team is worth having the late 2nd and late 3rd. Our draft could have had 3 2nd round picks, a first, and a third. That would be sick. After Jarvis Jenkins, we could have had Stephen Paea, Rodney Hudson, Marvin Austin, Daquan Bowers, Torrey smith, Mikel Leshoure and Ben Ijalana are some options we could have taken. And we could have gotten Randall Cobb/ someone else or still have done that miami trade and get hankerson, then Helu at the end of the third without having to give up all those picks.
I get what you're saying, this team has so many holes that trading back & adding picks would've made sense in virtually any deal. I also think you're essentially saying that we could now have 2 OLBs that aren't good in coverage. That could be a problem. Maybe Kerrigan will be, but from watching his highlights I don't see him dropping back to cover TEs or RBs.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:41 PM   #23
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Re: busted trade

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I guess if you follow the NFL close enough it was a plausible rumor. I mean after all the word on the street was that the Steelers brass were given permission to almost break the bank with a trade up for the other Pouncy. Still not a bad deal for the brother, sure the football team is up and down and not an annual contender like the Steelers but you get to stay close to home in a beautiful city playing for the one pro team in said city thats appreciated.
But it shouldn't have been plausible in the first place. Wexell basically tweeted something he heard from someone else-I'm guessing. Because he never said he heard Snyder, just Snyder said it. And if Snyder never even spoke, where did Wexell hear it from? I'm all for not revealing sources, but what he did-and what others did running with it-is unfortunate to say the least.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:51 PM   #24
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Re: busted trade

I think the bigger news would be Dan Snyder knowing anything in regards to what teams offered what. I would be pissed knowing our owner was within 20 miles of the Redskins war room on draft day.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:55 AM   #25
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Re: busted trade

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Originally Posted by skinster View Post
Let me clarify my statements . I would prefer ayers/2nd/3rd to kerrigan not because kerrigan isnt better than ayers. It is clear that he is. But at the same time I do not believe their impact on the field to be all that different for OUR team. My reasoning for this has to do with my own personal philosophies about the 3-4 defense, which I'm sure I will get alot of backlash for expressing.

1. I like one OLB to be a more natural linebacker (how I view harrison/matthews) and one player to be a more natural DE (how I view woodley/ware/hali), I feel the complement each other well. We cannot have two OLB pass rush on every play, so kerrigan/orakpos potential will not be realized. I am worried that it will end up like a Ware/Spencer combo, which I do not like.

2. I think that for our OLBs to be able to effectively do their job, we first need a better DL. I am a big believer in the DE's wrecking enough havoc to free up the OLBs. I think kerrigan's pass rushing talents will not be maximized until we improve our front.

3. I just want to emphasize that I DO want kerrigan over ayers on our team, I just think that the difference between their two impacts on the field given the situation of our team is worth having the late 2nd and late 3rd. Our draft could have had 3 2nd round picks, a first, and a third. That would be sick. After Jarvis Jenkins, we could have had Stephen Paea, Rodney Hudson, Marvin Austin, Daquan Bowers, Torrey smith, Mikel Leshoure and Ben Ijalana are some options we could have taken. And we could have gotten Randall Cobb/ someone else or still have done that miami trade and get hankerson, then Helu at the end of the third without having to give up all those picks.
James Harrison and Clay Matthews are premiere pass rushers in this league. They live and die rushing the passer (along with stopping the run, etc).

You're operating under the absolutely false assumptions that once a player is picked, the position is addressed and that we can't fix up the D-line further in future drafts so that Kerrigan and Rak finally to maximize their potential. This is the draft, not an a la carte line. When a good player falls to you, you pick the good player more often than not. The times you don't are when you already have too much depth or it's at a less "premier" position like RB, TE, FB. And of course, there's always next year's crop of DL to pick.
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:23 AM   #26
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Re: busted trade

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I think the bigger news would be Dan Snyder knowing anything in regards to what teams offered what. I would be pissed knowing our owner was within 20 miles of the Redskins war room on draft day.
What if he was just there holding a clipboard ? Or catching up on The Office ? Or playing Mortal Kombat on XBox Live ? Or just there to watch, not to talk ot to make a trade or to even select a player. IF he was there it would mean that much to you ?
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:49 PM   #27
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Re: busted trade

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What if he was just there holding a clipboard ? Or catching up on The Office ? Or playing Mortal Kombat on XBox Live ? Or just there to watch, not to talk ot to make a trade or to even select a player. IF he was there it would mean that much to you ?
That's not the kind of man that can sit in on something like that and not be active. Not his style.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:09 PM   #28
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Re: busted trade

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What if he was just there holding a clipboard ? Or catching up on The Office ? Or playing Mortal Kombat on XBox Live ? Or just there to watch, not to talk ot to make a trade or to even select a player. IF he was there it would mean that much to you ?
It is because that he was the wannabe-CEO of football operations for a decade who was rather incompetent at human resources and at following the adage of "buy low, sell high". He maybe a fine marketer, but I wouldn't want him as a stock broker or the guy leading the draft day war room because he would misrate the asset and sell me shit...and I would fall for it.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:37 PM   #29
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Re: busted trade

As I've heard it, Snyder like many, many other owners sits in the war room all weekend long. And that's really all he does, just sits there.

And I know everyone wants Snyder to be completely out of the loop on all football related matters. Not me, he doesn't need to be making the decisions but he has to be aware of what's being discussed and what's going on in my opinion.
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Old 05-17-2011, 04:58 PM   #30
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Re: busted trade

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As I've heard it, Snyder like many, many other owners sits in the war room all weekend long. And that's really all he does, just sits there.

And I know everyone wants Snyder to be completely out of the loop on all football related matters. Not me, he doesn't need to be making the decisions but he has to be aware of what's being discussed and what's going on in my opinion.
YOU are correct.
The dude owns the team and has ALL the skin on the table......
He deserves to have a little fun time with his investment.
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