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8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

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Old 05-17-2011, 10:24 PM   #61
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

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Wonder what the reaction on this site would have been back in '89 when Upshaw did much of (if not exactly) what De Smith is doing now
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In all seriousness though that was then, this is now. Upshaw learned how to negotiate and found it more effective then grandstanding. On top of that he had an apprentice (Troy Vincent) which the NFLPA decided not to elect for reasons I don't know. I guess they thought that De Smith in a CBA negotiation would have been like putting the owners against Ray Lewis in his prime. Instead they got Lamar Marshall in 2006.

Bottom line the stage should have been set for Upshaw's successor not to repeat his rookie mistakes.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:28 PM   #62
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

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“Who knows when that will be? Obviously, all of this is pretty unpredictable, for all of us, even the players,” Brees said today on the Dan Patrick Show. “Even a guy like me, I’m on the executive committee, so I was in a lot of those mediation sessions prior to the lockout and everything else and I’m very up to speed about everything that’s happening with the courts. And yet you still feel pretty helpless. You’re just kind of sitting there waiting for judges to make their decision.”
Drew Breese kills me. Can someone please call him and make him aware he's "not helpless." That the time spent waiting for the appeals court could be waisted on making a counter offer to the NFL and possibly negotiating a new CBA.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:34 PM   #63
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

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Drew Breese kills me. Can someone please call him and make him aware he's "not helpless." That the time spent waiting for the appeals court could be waisted on making a counter offer to the NFL and possibly negotiating a new CBA.
That would show weakness. Can't show weakness have to show strength. Have to take whats yours. Have to win. Nice guys finish last, just ask T.O.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:35 PM   #64
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

I'm not sure it can be proven Smith's strategy all along was to use litigation as a tool
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:39 PM   #65
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

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I'm not sure it can be proven Smith's strategy all along was to use litigation as a tool
Maybe, but all I know is that everytime I've seen the NFL make a serious offer DeSmith has left and ran directly to the media. He's like a woman. "I'm mad at you but I'm not going to tell you what I did, I will tell Sarah though and then she'll tell you."

De Smith should be going after rapist, pedophiles, and murderers. Not rich NFL fat cats.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:41 PM   #66
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

How do you know they have been serious offers?
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:41 PM   #67
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

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I'm not sure it can be proven Smith's strategy all along was to use litigation as a tool
Maybe, maybe not. That's what the NFL alleged out of post-mediation frustration anyway.

I do think if he was going to use decertification/litigation as leverage to get a quick deal, it was quickly botched if not mishandled from the start. Pulling the trigger in the midst of real progress didn't make a lot of sense.

Of course, being couped up in a room with people who you disagree with for two straight weeks...I can't think of anything in the world less enjoyable than that, but I don't know if real human feelings of frustration on both sides justify the childish actions of both sides (far less on De Smith than Jeff Pash, but I digress), and the ultimate decision by the NFLPA to go to litigation.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:44 PM   #68
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

Drew Brees feels helpless waiting for judges’ decisions | ProFootballTalk

Can someone please explain why it seems that the players don't want to get a deal done? Why it seems they want this to go to court?

It's retoricle.

But although the owners gave a crappy deal the first time, they offered a second deal with out any input or ideas from the players/union. Negotiations take two parties. If only one party is communicating then it's not a negotiation. The second deal might be just as crappy as the first to the players, but an offer is a starting point. make a counter offer and see what happens. Then as negotiations go they should be bantering back and forth.

But.... the players/union.... don't want to banter, they are waiting for court. and the owners are the bad people. Hmmm.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:45 PM   #69
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

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How do you know they have been serious offers?
AP: Union rejected NFL's offer to show 5 years of profitability data - USATODAY.com

NFLPA Rejects Health Care Proposal Made by League | Football Today

Union rejects NFL labor proposal, then decertifies

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"The union left a very good deal on the table," the NFL said in a statement. "It included an offer to narrow the player compensation gap that existed in the negotiations by splitting the difference; guarantee reallocation of savings from first-round rookies to veterans and retirees without negatively affecting compensation for rounds 2-7; ensure no compensation reduction for veterans; implement new year-round health and safety rules; retain the current 16-4 season format for at least two years with any subsequent changes subject to the approval of the league and union; and establish a new legacy fund for retired players ($82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years).

"The union was offered financial disclosure of audited league and club profitability information that is not even shared with the NFL clubs.

"The expanded health and safety rules would include a reduction in offseason programs of five weeks (from 14 to nine) and of OTAs (Organized Team Activities) from 14 to 10; significant reductions in the amount of contact in practices; and other changes."
NFL Makes Another Offer to the Players During Mediation on Monday - Cincy Jungle
mawae - "we are not anywhere closer to a deal now than we were in march"

Now the NFL has extended another offer, we obviously don't know the details yet but rather then say "hey lets stay a couple more days and hammer this out" they say "ehhh lets just talk at the next court ordered mediation on June 7th." IE "Let's see if we can get more leverage in court."
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:48 PM   #70
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I'm not sure it can be proven Smith's strategy all along was to use litigation as a tool
I will admit I tend to hear his words and think he is BSing, but he was on Sirius tonight(no really I heard him) and he said that they had been planning this for two years, now he is smart enough to phrase it however it needs to be phrased for legal purposes, but I think its obvious that A) the owners were going to lockout the players and B) the players were going to litigate. The players did not elect him based on his past mediation results.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:51 PM   #71
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

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Maybe, but all I know is that everytime I've seen the NFL make a serious offer DeSmith has left and ran directly to the media. He's like a woman. "I'm mad at you but I'm not going to tell you what I did, I will tell Sarah though and then she'll tell you."

De Smith should be going after rapist, pedophiles, and murderers. Not rich NFL fat cats.
Let me help you out....

In Drew Brees statement he added....
[QUOTE] You’re just kind of sitting there waiting for judges to make their decision.”[/QUOTE]

There is no need to wait for a judge to make a decision if your actively in negotiations. If your not counter offering and waiting for a judges decision then clearly you want litigation to resolve the issues.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:53 PM   #72
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

Frivolous law suits FTW!

•January 2011: The NFLPA files a collusion case, citing that just one of 216 restricted free agents (RFAs) in 2010 was signed to an offer sheet. In 2009, four of 55 RFAs signed offer sheets. The case was filed after the sides extended a December deadline for filing.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:57 PM   #73
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

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I'm not sure it can be proven Smith's strategy all along was to use litigation as a tool
I'm not sure there's much evidence to prove otherwise.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:58 PM   #74
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

It's not like Smith and Goodell haven't been talking. They spent quite a few hours together today. And maybe instead of serious I should have said good offers.

I understand that the owners concern is more about the long term fate of the NFL than perhaps the players, but from my vantage point I still have a tough time siding with the owners. Regardless of my opinion of how some reps on the player side are handling things.

I'm confident (famous last words?) a deal will be worked out by the time it truly needs to.
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Old 05-17-2011, 11:02 PM   #75
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Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

I'm sure Smith was prepared all along to go to litigation if he felt it was necessary, but I guess where I differ from you guys is whether he made it necessary. I suppose a lot of people believe, with reason, the only way a deal would be reached was if we got to the breaking point.

But this negotiation will be nothing compared to the NBA
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