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Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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Old 06-03-2011, 09:21 AM   #31
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
Upshaw went the litigation route against the league, decertified the union, and also dragged the players through the '87 strike. Just saying D. Smith isn't exactly blazing any new trails here.
True, however the deal Upshaw got was significantly better than their existing situation. I don't think that it is possible for DSmith to greatly improve the players standing via litigation like Upshaw did. The risk/reward calculation was no where near the same in my mind. It's kinda like digging a brand new panama canal after one already exists, there better be a real good reason to start from scratch rather than upgrade the existing one.

But time will tell. maybe this was the right time and place for this battle, I tend to think not...
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:07 AM   #32
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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It appeared to me to be a reasonable offer, and as BHA said, merited at least a counter-offer. It seemed to be a "split the baby" kind of offer with several concessions to the players.

Am I missing something? Are you of the opinion that it was a bad offer or one that was just being made as a sop to public opinion and, if so, why?

Really, I am just trying to understand why it didn't merit at least a counter-offer. You may have covered it in earlier posts and, if so, just point me to them.
Just saying that for over a year before fans really started caring about this whole labor mess (March 2011) the players made repeated offers to the league, only to be flatly denied over and over again. So why should I blast D. Smith for rejecting the owners' offer and they repeatedly rebuffed the players' offers?

http://www.thewarpath.net/804607-post191.html (8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues)
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:13 AM   #33
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Just saying that for over a year before fans really started caring about this whole labor mess (March 2011) the players made repeated offers to the league, only to be flatly denied over and over again. So why should I blast D. Smith for rejecting the owners' offer and they repeatedly rebuffed the players' offers?

http://www.thewarpath.net/804607-post191.html (8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues)
Nooooooooooooo. I want it to be be black and whiteeeeeeeeeee.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:29 AM   #34
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

mediation is what they do when they are being forced to talk through a neutral 3rd party. This is good news. This means they are able to discuss the hard issues directly with one another. Which indicates a certain level of flexibility.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:33 AM   #35
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Just saying that for over a year before fans really started caring about this whole labor mess (March 2011) the players made repeated offers to the league, only to be flatly denied over and over again. So why should I blast D. Smith for rejecting the owners' offer and they repeatedly rebuffed the players' offers? http://www.thewarpath.net/804607-post191.html (8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues)
Yes that was the post I was thinking of and it was one that had me rethinking my position a little bit.

I have no problem with rejecting an offer, it was the ineffectual posturing that put me off. Looking back over the articles from your link, yes - the NFL rejected the offers but seem to give reasons (which people may or may not agree with) for the rejection which, if not an actual counter offer, did point to factors where a middle ground might be found.

D.Smith's trashing of the NFL's last offers did not seem to point to a middle ground and, instead of 'powering down' to allow cooler heads to prevail, it seemed to me that he was stoking the litigation fires. Of course, knowing that Smith seemed litigation bound, perhaps the Owners' offer was just part their public opinion strategy which they knew Smith would reject. If so, Smith's public comments played right into their hands. Quite frankly, IMO, Smith, in his litigation strategy, is either a douche or is getting played like a fiddle.

Hopefully it is changing, but it seems to me BOTH sides are determined to cut off their noses to spite their face - the Owners by trying to milk every last penny out of the players AND get an ounce or two of blood in the process through the negiotiating table and the players by travelling down this all or nothing litigation path.

Again, not "blasting Smith" for rejecting the offer but, rather, for the manner in which he did it.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:44 AM   #36
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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Well, it's not a simple game to the people truly involved in this
The game will always be simple....the greed needs help.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:49 AM   #37
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

I know in my line of work anytime both parties are talking settlement, it's because both sides realize that litigation is not going to result in the best possible outcome and it's better to settle before the court has the final say.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:55 AM   #38
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Yes that was the post I was thinking of and it was one that had me rethinking my position a little bit.

I have no problem with rejecting an offer, it was the ineffectual posturing that put me off. Looking back over the articles from your link, yes - the NFL rejected the offers but seem to give reasons (which people may or may not agree with) for the rejection which, if not an actual counter offer, did point to factors where a middle ground might be found.

D.Smith's trashing of the NFL's last offers did not seem to point to a middle ground and, instead of 'powering down' to allow cooler heads to prevail, it seemed to me that he was stoking the litigation fires. Of course, knowing that Smith seemed litigation bound, perhaps the Owners' offer was just part their public opinion strategy which they knew Smith would reject. If so, Smith's public comments played right into their hands. Quite frankly, IMO, Smith, in his litigation strategy, is either a douche or is getting played like a fiddle.

Hopefully it is changing, but it seems to me BOTH sides are determined to cut off their noses to spite their face - the Owners by trying to milk every last penny out of the players AND get an ounce or two of blood in the process through the negiotiating table and the players by travelling down this all or nothing litigation path.

Again, not "blasting Smith" for rejecting the offer but, rather, for the manner in which he did it.
Fair enough. But don't confuse Smith's public posturing (which I agree seems a bit unnecessary at times) with his private conversations with Goodell
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:56 AM   #39
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

dkaplanSBJ daniel kaplan
Smith just went up and shook the hands of some league executives. Never seen him do that before.
21 minutes ago

It really sounds to me like some positive things may be happening in the backrooms. I hope that is true.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:05 AM   #40
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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Fair enough. But don't confuse Smith's public posturing (which I agree seems a bit unnecessary at times) with his private conversations with Goodell
A different "insider" that posts on the cowboys board has insinuated that DSmith was very stubborn at the mediation by Cohen, and that Cohen was upset by his behavior. I am just wondering if you heard any inkling of that SS? I certainly can't verify it, so I am not saying its true, but the guy is usually reputable.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:09 AM   #41
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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A different "insider" that posts on the cowboys board has insinuated that DSmith was very stubborn at the mediation by Cohen, and that Cohen was upset by his behavior. I am just wondering if you heard any inkling of that SS? I certainly can't verify it, so I am not saying its true, but the guy is usually reputable.
I stopped reading right there.

~Shakes head and walks away.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:17 AM   #42
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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I stopped reading right there.

~Shakes head and walks away.
Say it as you want, but if SS says something, I give a lot of credence to his words because of his knowledge etc. This guy has some similar connections, and rarely throws out stuff when not confident.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:22 AM   #43
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Say it as you want, but if SS says something, I give a lot of credence to his words because of his knowledge etc. This guy has some similar connections, and rarely throws out stuff when not confident.
Just bustin your chops. But seriously, what are you doing on a Cowboys forum!


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Old 06-03-2011, 11:53 AM   #44
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

Following adbrandt on twitter at ESPN ... looks like 8th Circuit holding true to form.

Quote:
@adbrandt As the questioning was more strident towards Owners with Judge Nelson, the converse is true here today.
Quote:
@adbrandt Judge Colloton says N-L Act could work towards future damages but implies could prevent injunction.
Quote:
@adbrandt Two judges who sided with Owners in stays asking many questions to Olson [NFLPA's Attorney]. Judge Bye who ruled for Players has not said a word.
Quote:
@adbrandt Judge Colloton wants to get to whether this is a labor dispute or not. Olson sticking with antitrust arguments.
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:00 PM   #45
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Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue

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A different "insider" that posts on the cowboys board has insinuated that DSmith was very stubborn at the mediation by Cohen, and that Cohen was upset by his behavior. I am just wondering if you heard any inkling of that SS? I certainly can't verify it, so I am not saying its true, but the guy is usually reputable.
That he's stubborn? Sure, I don't think there's much doubt about that. Doesn't mean he and Goodell (who is also stubborn) can't be and aren't cordial toward each other in private.
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