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Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

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Old 06-29-2011, 11:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
While T.O had his share of quality QB's he still never had someone like Peyton throwing to him yet he was still able to put up more yards. I also want to avoid whoever has the higher number wins but the gap in TD catches is pretty far apart even taking into account the fact that T.O has two years on Marvin.

Plus T.O never shot a gun at another person
But I bet some people would think harrison over TO. They get so caught up with the player based on what is defined as a good player for their team, rather than looking at them as a person outside the scope of football and stats. When these types of considerations are a part of the public's selection criteria, stats tend to get left on the back burner. Sure TO can be a punk at work but he hasn't been caught up in major criminal investigations. If we are going to start analyzing players beyond in the field numbers, and them as people, let's start with not being involved in shootings.

You could say a part of Monk's delay getting in also had to do with his personality or lack theirof. When it came to game and postgame, he wasn't compelling. Not what the public wanted from a player, so the stats got lost in he equation. Him and TO might have the same results getting into the HOF just due to being on the extremes of the expected personality spectrum.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:06 AM   #17
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

Yes!!
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:06 AM   #18
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
But I bet some people would think harrison over TO. They get so caught up with the player based on what is defined as a good player for their team, rather than looking at them as a person outside the scope of football and stats. When these types of considerations are a part of the public's selection criteria, stats tend to get left on the back burner. Sure TO can be a punk at work but he hasn't been caught up in major criminal investigations. If we are going to start analyzing players beyond in the field numbers, and them as people, let's start with not being involved in shootings.

You could say a part of Monk's delay getting in also had to do with his personality or lack theirof. When it came to game and postgame, he wasn't compelling. Not what the public wanted from a player, so the stats got lost in he equation. Him and TO might have the same results getting into the HOF just due to being on the extremes of the expected personality spectrum.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Personally I think TO is a first ballot HOF, but the HOF voters will make him wait a year.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:07 AM   #19
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

Yeah, they say off-field stuff doesn't matter. And it seemingly doesn't when it's truly off-field. Hence why it didn't take any time to consider guys like Lawrence Taylor and Michael Irvin.

But, your locker room/post game personality I'm certain is a factor for many voters. Even if they deny it
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Old 06-30-2011, 02:47 AM   #20
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

Harrison was better more recently. T.O. had the better career overall.
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Old 06-30-2011, 02:48 AM   #21
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

And boy, Monk got in just in time. If he hadn't been elected when he was (and Andre Reed went in instead), Monk would have likely never gotten in.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:10 AM   #22
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

I think so, but he may not get it
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:21 AM   #23
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

NO!
I can't believe that everyone thinks TO is a hall of famer. If the guy was that good why did 3 teams get rid of him in his prime?

I know, he's got the #s & on the field was great - at times. But to paraphrase Herm Edwards, if the point is to win the game, TO did almost as much to bring his teams down as he did to win games. Should that behavior be discounted just because he made a lot of plays? No, he ultimately was not a winner. Every time his team got close to winning big, he divided the team. His super bowl game exemplifies this; he had a great game, then throws his qb under the bus. The damage was too much to repair in the next season.

Job Performance = your behavior in any manner associated w/your employer & fellow employees.
TO's job performance was great at times, horrendos at others. Don't mistake my point for "off field" issues, different subject altogether. When you talk about your teamates & throw tantrums on the sideline, that is part of what your evaluated on as an employee. TO never carried himself like a hall of famer & will likely end his career like Allen Iverson, w/nobody wanting him.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:23 AM   #24
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

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Yeah, I know all about Rice's egotistical ways. But like TO, aside from the "prostitution" incident, never any real off-field issues.

Here's a question for you guys (not to take this thread too far off topic). If you had to choose one-who goes in 1st ballot. TO or Marvin Harrison?

Let's say TO's career is over: Here are his numbers-15 years; 1,078 receptions; 15,934 yards; 156 TDs

Harrison-13 years; 1,102 receptions; 14,580 yards; 128 TDs

One a complete loner who often wouldn't even go into team huddles, the other invites the young WRs on the team to live and train with him in the off-season. One of them has thrown almost all his QBs under the bus, the other played with one of the best of all time. One of them has never had a serious issue with the law, the other....curiously involved in a fatal shooting.
Harrison by far, he was consistently good & never kept his team from winning like TO did.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:40 AM   #25
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

TO definitely has the numbers to get into the Hall, but they should make him wait just for being a asshat his whole career. It would be icing on the cake. I'm just happy has hell that he'll never get a Super Bowl ring...lol YES!!!
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:41 AM   #26
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

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T.O. should be a first-ballot Hall of Famer, but . . . . | ProFootballTalk

I think he should be without a doubt, his numbers are undeniable, what do you think?
Was Art Monk a first ballot guy? While he should have been, sadly, the answer is no.

More than the numbers play into the HOF voting. If I was picking a team of rookies with a crystal ball, I certainly would take Art Monk way head of T.O.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:53 AM   #27
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

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Originally Posted by Leader In Sports View Post
Was Art Monk a first ballot guy? While he should have been, sadly, the answer is no.

More than the numbers play into the HOF voting. If I was picking a team of rookies with a crystal ball, I certainly would take Art Monk way head of T.O.
Yes! More than the #s should play into it, it should be about how you contributed to your team & to the game. From that standpoint, TO is definitely no hall of famer.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:55 AM   #28
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

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Originally Posted by freddyg12 View Post
NO!
I can't believe that everyone thinks TO is a hall of famer. If the guy was that good why did 3 teams get rid of him in his prime?

I know, he's got the #s & on the field was great - at times. But to paraphrase Herm Edwards, if the point is to win the game, TO did almost as much to bring his teams down as he did to win games. Should that behavior be discounted just because he made a lot of plays? No, he ultimately was not a winner. Every time his team got close to winning big, he divided the team. His super bowl game exemplifies this; he had a great game, then throws his qb under the bus. The damage was too much to repair in the next season.

Job Performance = your behavior in any manner associated w/your employer & fellow employees.
TO's job performance was great at times, horrendos at others. Don't mistake my point for "off field" issues, different subject altogether. When you talk about your teamates & throw tantrums on the sideline, that is part of what your evaluated on as an employee. TO never carried himself like a hall of famer & will likely end his career like Allen Iverson, w/nobody wanting him.
the super bowl the eagles played in? TO was a major reason they made it. havent been back since he left. i think your statement is very inaccurate
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:57 AM   #29
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

and how does one "carry" ones self like a hall of famer? like LT? this shouldnt matter at all. hell, a murderer is in the hall
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:02 AM   #30
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Re: Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

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the super bowl the eagles played in? TO was a major reason they made it. havent been back since he left. i think your statement is very inaccurate
I think yours is debatable at best. Did TO help them get there - yes. But TO was hurt all through the playoffs & they won w/out him. So that has to be considered.

The 2nd point - "haven't been back since he left" actually reinforces my point. If TO could've kept his mouth shut & been a good teammate, that team might've been able to come back strong the next year. What happened after that was him tearing the team apart to the point that Philly got rid of him while he was still in his prime.
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