Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Redskins Locker Room


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2011, 12:10 PM   #46
Special Teams
 
NLC1054's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 279
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
I don't get your point here.

You think he wasn't a good player in 2009 because he had 4 sacks in 12 games?
That's a pretty weak argument.
Does that mean that Ngata had a bad season too he played 14 games w/ 1.5 sacks.
Come on, sir. That argument is weak sauce. Ngata and Haynesworth played completely different positions. By the definition of a 3-4 defensive end, Haloti Ngata isn't supposed to get a lot of sacks. He's a run stuffer and tackler first, pass rusher second.

All Albert wants to do is rush the quarterback (that's what he's said he wants to do), so you'd think a guy who only wants to rush the quarterback would have the same sort of production he'd had in the two years prior. Now, I will concede that having Haynesworth in there helped the rest of the defense get their sacks by getting double teams, which opened things up for other pass rushers.

But he still pulled himself off the field. Playing in 12 games and then leaving some of those twelve games early? No es bueno. Albert has the most active "off" switch of any player in the NFL. Those four sacks he got? He got three in the first eight games of season. Which is okay. Then he didn't get a sack until week 15 in 2009. That's to go along with pedestrian numbers in tackles and creating no turnovers.

When the man wants to turn it on and play, he can play with the best of them. But when he doesn't? He's okay-ish.
NLC1054 is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 07-05-2011, 01:05 PM   #47
Living Legend
 
Ruhskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,849
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Moving away from the AH debate (which this thread really shouldn't turn into) I think the key to our defense this year will be the defensive line. I think we are on the verge of having a great OLB group in Orakpo and Kerrigan. Without a D-Line that can push and take up the opponents O-Line, their talents will be wasted.

Also, we need to have a second ILB to play along with Fletcher. Who will that be? I don't know, but I'd like to see a young player step into this role and take over Fletcher once he is done.
__________________
R.I.P. #21

New words created on The Warpath:
Rewalsr - Somretimes - Fualt - Jersesy - Itiot - Composetory
Afeard - Storgn - Empliment - Gaissn - Saftys - Minnisota
Faviort - Hatter - Phsyched - Foof - Heloing - Brutual
Stroried

"Give an opinion and move on. Your life doesn't depend on winning the internet." -FRPLG
Ruhskins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 01:49 PM   #48
Special Teams
 
NLC1054's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 279
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

I really like Robert Henson. I know he's undersized or whatever...but so is Fletcher. And I've never seen one guy go so hard in the fourth game of the preseason. The guy wants wants to play so hard. "I want winners! I want people who wanna win!"

Here's an interview I did with him for Bleacher Report back around draft time.

I also want to see Perry Riley step up. I think between those two guys we might be solid at inside linebacker if they're really ready to play.

Here's the article.
NLC1054 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:03 PM   #49
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,635
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLC1054 View Post
I really like Robert Henson. I know he's undersized or whatever...but so is Fletcher. And I've never seen one guy go so hard in the fourth game of the preseason. The guy wants wants to play so hard. "I want winners! I want people who wanna win!"

Here's an interview I did with him for Bleacher Report back around draft time.

I also want to see Perry Riley step up. I think between those two guys we might be solid at inside linebacker if they're really ready to play.

Here's the article.
You're KC Clyburn? No kidding. I don't care for much of what's on Bleacher Report, but I think your work is pretty good.

Makes sense, as you've had good posts here too
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:36 PM   #50
The Starter
 
30gut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,099
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLC1054 View Post
Come on, sir. That argument is weak sauce. Ngata and Haynesworth played completely different positions.
Calling the facts from 2009 weak sauce is a good arguement?
Haynsesoworth played DT in 2009 much harder to get sacks as DT then a 3-4End.
But, even sack total aside how but snaps played?
You can believe whatever you want, but the stats support that Haynesworth played well in 2009.

Quote:
Now, I will concede that having Haynesworth in there helped the rest of the defense get their sacks by getting double teams, which opened things up for other pass rushers.
Agreed.

Quote:
But he still pulled himself off the field. Playing in 12 games and then leaving some of those twelve games early?
In 2009? When did he pull himself off the field? And how did he leave early in those 12 games yet amass such a high % of snaps played?
__________________
No longer were NFL coaches dealing inflexibly with spread [QBs] in ways that caused stunted development for players like [A. Smith and Vick] now, the idea is to bring what the quarterback can do, and what he should do, together as an organic whole
30gut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:37 PM   #51
The Starter
 
30gut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,099
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
Moving away from the AH debate (which this thread really shouldn't turn into) I think the key to our defense this year will be the defensive line. I think we are on the verge of having a great OLB group in Orakpo and Kerrigan. Without a D-Line that can push and take up the opponents O-Line, their talents will be wasted.

Also, we need to have a second ILB to play along with Fletcher. Who will that be? I don't know, but I'd like to see a young player step into this role and take over Fletcher once he is done.
Re: (AH)I try to get out but they keep pulling me back in.

I think Jenkins fit well as a 2-gap DE and will be a huge improvement over Golston.
I also think Jenkins will be in the rotation at NT with Bryant, Nield and maybe a healthier Kemo.

I just wish that we had someone along the starting DL that had some quick upfield pass rush ability.
I think Holliday, Jarmon and Scott are our best pass rushing 1-gap style penetrating DL.

I think Kerrigan will be an upgrade at the OLB spot.
I don't want to speculate on his upside but I expect at the very least competent level of play and enough pass rush to at least take advantage of some decent match-ups when the OL slide protects towards Rak.
The question and challenge for both he and Rak is to improve in pass coverage.

I'm content to give Riley and Henson their shot at the ILB spot next to Fletch next this year.
Both have a physicality and violence to their games that I think Rocky lacked and I assume they can cover better then Rocky b/c struggled badly there too.

I'm looking forward to watching how our defense evolves.
__________________
No longer were NFL coaches dealing inflexibly with spread [QBs] in ways that caused stunted development for players like [A. Smith and Vick] now, the idea is to bring what the quarterback can do, and what he should do, together as an organic whole
30gut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 03:59 PM   #52
Playmaker
 
freddyg12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,540
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Don't forget Lo Alexander at ILB, he may be more cut out for that position & he's got great size for it. If Rogers or his replacement (Barnes mabye?) keep the same level at cb, I can see our d being much improved. That cb position is the only one I'm worried about.
freddyg12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 04:13 PM   #53
Franchise Player
 
skinsfan69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 9,443
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
I guess because you say so it must be true right?
Despite the facts showing showing otherwise.
You make a great argument, here's my counter:
He wasn't a bum in 2009.
Pretty good huh?
He couldn't even stay on the field for two plays in a row. His sorry ass would fall down and flap around like a fish out of water, get carried off on a stretcher and then when he got his breath he'd come back on the field. And I bet if you took a poll inside the locker room the players would agree with me. The guy makes a great play and then takes the next 10 off. Even the guy on the Rams said he basically tires out after a few plays. To me he's a big fat bum who is also a heist man. I honestly don't know how he can look himself in the mirror taking all that money and acting like dick on and off the field.
skinsfan69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 04:16 PM   #54
Franchise Player
 
skinsfan69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 9,443
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
The inability to get production out of veteran free agent acquisition seems to plague this team. With a few exceptions (London Fletcher comes to mind), we haven't been able to get productivity out of a big time FA signing, and that includes this FO regime (McNabb). I do hope that they are able to change this in the seasons to come.
That's cause it's stupid to overpay other teams players. It rarely works and that's why I'm 100% behind drafting for the next 2-3 years. It has a better chance of working when a team is already a contender but even then it's risky. I hate free agency and trading for other teams guys.
skinsfan69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 04:34 PM   #55
Playmaker
 
freddyg12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,540
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
That's cause it's stupid to overpay other teams players. It rarely works and that's why I'm 100% behind drafting for the next 2-3 years. It has a better chance of working when a team is already a contender but even then it's risky. I hate free agency and trading for other teams guys.
so far w/the exception of the McNabb trade, Allen & MS have shown they value draft picks. Getting 12 this year after starting w/8 was just what the team needed.

I would also like to see fewer free agents, but in Denver Shanny was never opposed to bringing in vets that could help him, even paying big $. Will be the same here, has been so far. I think we'll see greater value but I expect there will still be a no. of signings.
freddyg12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 04:42 PM   #56
Special Teams
 
NLC1054's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 279
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Stupid to overpay? Yes. Stupid to pay period? Not so much.

The thing is...you can't fix every hole you want to in the draft. Even with several good draft classes, you have to think, how many of those guys will be come legitimate starters?

When you really look at it, (thinking very loosely) you're looking for your starters in rounds 1-3, and maybe 4. The rest of the draft is mainly to add depth. That, and every position isn't going to be well represented in the draft.

This year's draft was weak on DBs, safeties especially. It was obvious that last year that free safety was a hole, as well as the depth at strong safety. Kareem Moore wasn't going to be an answer. Barnes played well enough for a corner playing safety, but they really want him to play corner more than anything.

So when O.J Atogwe becomes a free agent, and you're staring down a very weak class of safeties, and you don't have any proven guys who can play the position, then it makes sense to add a free agent. And they not only added a free agent, but they paid him in a deal that was very fair to both sides and was the right amount of money for O.J's skill level and his age.

The problem in the past wasn't that we added free agents; it was that we added free agents at positions we didn't need to add free agents at, and then them made them deals that they couldn't refuse, because Vinny was a ****ing dumbass and would set the market price for a guy too high, and no team was willing to come close to the kind of money we were offering.

Whereas with Bruce and Mike, we invited O.J in, talked with him extensively, offered him a fair deal...and then let him walk out to test the rest of the market place. The Vikings pursued him hardcore, but since he wasn't 1.) pressured into taking a deal from us and 2.) allowed to see what other teams would offer for his services, he decided to come here.

I think a team like Atlanta has done a good job of drafting talented players while also spending wisely in free agency. There can be balance doing both. It's easier when you're already a contender, but when you've got as many holes as the Redskins have, and as little depth, then you need free agency to fill the holes.
NLC1054 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 09:59 AM   #57
Franchise Player
 
skinsfan69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 9,443
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddyg12 View Post
Don't forget Lo Alexander at ILB, he may be more cut out for that position & he's got great size for it. If Rogers or his replacement (Barnes mabye?) keep the same level at cb, I can see our d being much improved. That cb position is the only one I'm worried about.
I just don't see that happening. If it were college ball then fine. But to put a guy at a position that he's never played before at the NFL level isn't going to work.
skinsfan69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 10:12 AM   #58
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,635
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
I just don't see that happening. If it were college ball then fine. But to put a guy at a position that he's never played before at the NFL level isn't going to work.
Those rules don't apply for OG/DE/DT/OLB Lorenzo Alexander
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 10:22 AM   #59
‎\m/
 
Mattyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 81,276
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Position changes seem to be the norm for Zo, and he excels at whatever he does.
__________________
Support The Warpath! | Warpath Shop
Mattyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 11:04 AM   #60
Playmaker
 
freddyg12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,540
Re: Recent Switches to 3-4 Defense Usually Mean Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
I just don't see that happening. If it were college ball then fine. But to put a guy at a position that he's never played before at the NFL level isn't going to work.
I guess your argument could be considered true in the sense that last year he played OLB for the first time & started, yet our 1st round pick this year is a guy that will likely take that spot. But LA has obviously stuck around cause he has adjusted to new positions.
freddyg12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.32259 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25