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How far can Beck take us?

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Old 08-08-2011, 12:37 PM   #301
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
...and your qualifications are??





He started out as basically a intern. He earned his way up the ladder.
I never said my qualifaications are better than his. They're not. But he's where he is today cause of his dad. I never said he didn't work hard. They're guys in the NFL that have been coaching for years and have never had the chance to run an offense. Doors opened for him and he's taking advantage of that. But in my opinion, if he thinks Beck can be an NFL starter he's sadly mistaken. The Shanahans think Beck is better than any of the guys that came out this year. We'll see. But if Gabbert turns out to be legit then heads might roll.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:43 PM   #302
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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I think it says plenty.

He grew up in a football household, he played high school and college ball, and he started out in coaching 8 years ago. I think he knows a thing or two about the game.



Trying to sell him short because of his Dad is pretty lame.
Your response is lame cause I'm not questioning his X and O knowledge! I think Kyle knows his stuff about offense. He is where is cause of his dad. But that doesn't mean he's not good at what he does. I'm questioning his talent evaluation of John Beck. I saw the guy play when he was a rookie and I didn't see anything that made me believe that he was going to be good. He throws a bad ball, doesn't spin it and couldn't play in bad weather.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:43 PM   #303
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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I never said my qualifaications are better than his. They're not. But he's where he is today cause of his dad. I never said he didn't work hard. They're guys in the NFL that have been coaching for years and have never had the chance to run an offense. Doors opened for him and he's taking advantage of that. But in my opinion, if he thinks Beck can be an NFL starter he's sadly mistaken. The Shanahans think Beck is better than any of the guys that came out this year. We'll see. But if Gabbert turns out to be legit then heads might roll.
His Dad might have originally opened a few doors for him but ultimately he has to keep himself in the room. If he'd have failed it wouldnt matter who his Dad is, he'd be gone.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:45 PM   #304
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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I never said my qualifaications are better than his. They're not. But he's where he is today cause of his dad. I never said he didn't work hard. They're guys in the NFL that have been coaching for years and have never had the chance to run an offense. Doors opened for him and he's taking advantage of that. But in my opinion, if he thinks Beck can be an NFL starter he's sadly mistaken. The Shanahans think Beck is better than any of the guys that came out this year. We'll see. But if Gabbert turns out to be legit then heads might roll.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm definitely giving it a wait and see what happens on the field stance before I go assuming things about Beck. My gut feeling is that he won't play the entire season, but I could be very wrong.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:46 PM   #305
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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Your response is lame cause I'm not questioning his X and O knowledge! I think Kyle knows his stuff about offense. He is where is cause of his dad. But that doesn't mean he's not good at what he does. I'm questioning his talent evaluation of John Beck. I saw the guy play when he was a rookie and I didn't see anything that made me believe that he was going to be good. He throws a bad ball, doesn't spin it and couldn't play in bad weather.
lol give me a break, you're basing your opinion on a few games you saw on TV, meanwhile KS has broken down hours of tape on the guy and also works with him personally.

But yeah, you're the expert questioning his credentials.

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Old 08-08-2011, 12:47 PM   #306
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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His Dad might have originally opened a few doors for him but ultimately he has to keep himself in the room. If he'd have failed it wouldnt matter who his Dad is, he'd be gone.
This.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:03 PM   #307
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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lol give me a break, you're basing your opinion on a few games you saw on TV, meanwhile KS has broken down hours of tape on the guy and also works with him personally.

But yeah, you're the expert questioning his credentials.

Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:47 PM   #308
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.
Both Ozzie and Bill Parcells had very specific reasons for letting Beck go for a ham sandwich, most of which were not football related.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:00 PM   #309
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.
Good points about Newsome and Parcells regarding Beck. Those two are some of the best personnell minds in the game. Them letting Beck go for next to nothing definitely says something.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:01 PM   #310
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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Both Ozzie and Bill Parcells had very specific reasons for letting Beck go for a ham sandwich, most of which were not football related.
What reasons? Doug Dutch? Lol.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:12 PM   #311
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

I'm so happy that we have a game this week so that we can start making educated evaluations of Beck rather than relying on speculation.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:18 PM   #312
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.
I see what you're saying, and in some respects I agree with you. At the same time, let's also keep in mind that not every Super Bowl MVP QB that has ever played the game started off that way in their rookie seasons or even the seasons after that.

Let's also keep in mind that Parcells wasn't exactly an offensive mind during his coaching years in the NFL. Yes, I give him respect because of his Super Bowl wins with the Giants, but I'm not so sure he'd be someone who you'd take his evaluations over someone like Kyle who works solely with the offense and is doing it presently in today's NFL. Sure, maybe Parcells didn't want Beck in Miami, but it's not like he picked an all-star QB to replace him either. As far as Ozzie Newsome is concerned, he probably is more of an offensive mind and could evaluate talent better, but again, his knowledge lays mostly with receiving.

Just give it time and see what happens. Just enjoy the fact that we're getting to see football and this team is going through a change for the better.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:30 PM   #313
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

*sigh*

1.) Beck went to Parcells at the end of the 2008 season and laid his cards on the table. He wanted to know where he stood in the organization, and if he'd be able to compete for a starting job. Parcells pretty much told him no. This is a year after Parcells came into the organization and said that Beck reminded him of Tony Romo.

(Which is weord, since Tony Romo wasn't a Parcells product, he was Sean Payton's project. And Mike Shanahan wanted him too. Go figure.)

Beck asked if he'd be allowed to compete for a starting job. Parcells told him no. They apparently had some words. Beck asked to be traded or be released.

Let me repeat this. John Beck ASKED to be traded or released, if he wasn't going to be able to compete for a chance to compete. This isn't Bill Parcells saying "oh, this guy isn't worth anything". That's Beck going into Parcells office and saying "I deserve to start, at least give me the opportunity to try and start somewhere else". Parcells granted his request. His request.

2.) When it comes to John Beck going to the Ravens, people very much like to ignore the fact that Beck was never going to start there. Ever. To sit and act indignant like "Oh, if Ozzie Newsome saw something in Beck he woulda kept him" conveniently ignores the fact that they already had a franchise quarterback in Joe Flacco, and a back-up quarterback they drafted in Troy Smith.

The Ravens needed a corner. Mike and Kyle liked John Beck. The Ravens had just signed Marc Bulger to be a pretty expensive back-up quarterback, and Joe Flacco is healthy, so the Ravens knew they were going to be rolling with two QB's, so Beck got traded.

It's not this black and white case of "well if those guys saw anything they woulda kept him!". It's business, and it's regime changes.

I'm not saying Beck can start, but I'm kinda of annoyed at the "If Parcells/Newsome thought he had something they woulda kept him" argument. It ignores the facts of his time in the NFL.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:35 PM   #314
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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Good points about Newsome and Parcells regarding Beck. Those two are some of the best personnell minds in the game. Them letting Beck go for next to nothing definitely says something.
Are they good points really?

Parcells is a good personnel guy when it comes to OL/DL/LB, but I wouldn't call him some guru on QBs. None of his QBs have been really worth noting. (Simms?..lol, Bledsoe?..lol, Hostetler?...lol) and it took him forever to finally bench Bledsoe for Tony Romo.


Same can be said with Newsome. He's great at the other positions (OL,DB,LB,DL,RB), but lets not make them out to be some QB gurus. Dilfer?...lol Banks?...lol Grbac?...lol Boeller?...lol Hell, even now, we are seeing their prime young QB fail when it matters most. The jury is still out on Flacco at this point in time.


I would value Shannahan/Reid/Holmgren opinion on QBs more than I would Parcells/Newsome.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:39 PM   #315
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Re: How far can Beck take us?

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Originally Posted by NLC1054 View Post
*sigh*

1.) Beck went to Parcells at the end of the 2008 season and laid his cards on the table. He wanted to know where he stood in the organization, and if he'd be able to compete for a starting job. Parcells pretty much told him no. This is a year after Parcells came into the organization and said that Beck reminded him of Tony Romo.

(Which is weord, since Tony Romo wasn't a Parcells product, he was Sean Payton's project. And Mike Shanahan wanted him too. Go figure.)

Beck asked if he'd be allowed to compete for a starting job. Parcells told him no. They apparently had some words. Beck asked to be traded or be released.

Let me repeat this. John Beck ASKED to be traded or released, if he wasn't going to be able to compete for a chance to compete. This isn't Bill Parcells saying "oh, this guy isn't worth anything". That's Beck going into Parcells office and saying "I deserve to start, at least give me the opportunity to try and start somewhere else". Parcells granted his request. His request.

2.) When it comes to John Beck going to the Ravens, people very much like to ignore the fact that Beck was never going to start there. Ever. To sit and act indignant like "Oh, if Ozzie Newsome saw something in Beck he woulda kept him" conveniently ignores the fact that they already had a franchise quarterback in Joe Flacco, and a back-up quarterback they drafted in Troy Smith.

The Ravens needed a corner. Mike and Kyle liked John Beck. The Ravens had just signed Marc Bulger to be a pretty expensive back-up quarterback, and Joe Flacco is healthy, so the Ravens knew they were going to be rolling with two QB's, so Beck got traded.

It's not this black and white case of "well if those guys saw anything they woulda kept him!". It's business, and it's regime changes.

I'm not saying Beck can start, but I'm kinda of annoyed at the "If Parcells/Newsome thought he had something they woulda kept him" argument. It ignores the facts of his time in the NFL.
I'm glad you posted this. Maybe now some of the boo birds can quiet their chirping a bit.
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