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Drafting Mike Williams

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Old 12-29-2004, 12:26 PM   #16
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Not one of the receivers drafted in the last draft would have made an impact on this team...plaina nd simple. Not one of them was so scary good that they would transcend the crapiness of our offense. An impact receiver like Moss, Harrison, Owens, C Johnson they are not...yet. The only guy to come into the league in fact and have a truely psoitive affect in the last few years was Moss. Even Boldin didn't make his team much better. He just caught EVERY BALL they threw. No one else did squat. An impact receiver makes the second receiver look like a number one. Alvin harper anyone? They guy was worthless but having a true impact receiver like Irvin made him look like the next coming of Lynn Swan or something. he sucked and it showed up when he was the man. Peerless Price comes to mind also. Mike Williams may be an impact guy down the road but I don't like him for us NOW. He is going to go in the top 5 either way so we most likely wont have a shot at him but if we do then we should trade down SLIGHTLY...like two or three spots and get a tackle or DE. Cap consierations are irrelevant.
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Old 12-29-2004, 01:46 PM   #17
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I just think it doesn't make much sense to go after Mike Williams especially with our needs elsewhere.

We need an Alvin Harper type deep threat.
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Old 12-29-2004, 02:28 PM   #18
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I think that if Mike Williams is there for the taking when it's our turn to pick, we will get some very interesting trade offers. Too bad Ditka isn't coaching anywhere this go around.
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Old 12-29-2004, 07:07 PM   #19
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My school of thought is you don't trade down if someone of top 5 caliber is there for your pick (unless it's a qb that you can't use)... there was no way we were trading down from nabbing either sean taylor or kwII last year for a lower pick because both players had way too much potential to pass on.

Sure the skins can trade down and nab a decent DE and O-lineman... But I was reading the Clinton Portis article in the Post today and it says despite the switch to zone blocking, CP can't run on 8 and 9 man fronts. I don't care if you put Orlando Pace on our line, Portis still ain't gonna have success against those numbers.

Basically meaning, if our only perceived threat is Portis, we need to find another threat. I love Coles to death, but even if he's healthy would anyone argue that having Mike opposite him is detrimental to the overall scheme of the offense? We've mentioned Roy Williams, Michael Clayton, Lee Evans, and Anquan Boldin all having first year impacts. You look at their respective offenses, and they are not much different that the Skins: Detroit with Harrington/Jones, TB with Johnson/Pittman, Bills with Bledsoe/McGahee, AZ with whoever. How would Williams not be able to contribute immediately?

The skins would at least have to take a look at the physical freak that Mike is... he's a healthy 6-5 and weighs 228 pounds. You can't teach that size. He came to USC b/c the florida schools tried to recruit him as a TE, thinking he couldn't play the wideout position.

He's not just big, he was the strongest receiver in the land his sophmore year. He runs routes and he never drops the ball. He's not just potential either... in just two years in school:

frosh year: 81 catches/1265 yards/14 TDs
soph year: 95 catches/1314 yards/16 TDs

His first year, Carson Palmer won the Heisman after four years of ineptitude as SC's quarterback... part of the reason lies with Norm Chow's schemes... BMW was responsible for the other half.

His soph year, Matt Leinart became a Heisman finalist his first year starting as QB- you can attribute most of that Williams as well.

That said, the guy is just plain bigger than anyone who covers him (make that two or three guys that tried to cover him on any given play in college). When the Skins offense has been clicking the past month, we're still having problems in the red zone. You don't think Ramsey would love to have Mike back there for a fade route? People are also looking for a deep threat right? Who do you think was on the receiving end of Carson/Matt's fly routes for TDs? How good would Lavernues be with the secondary flowing towards Mike's side? Well, just ask Keary Colbert, who went on to set Trojan wide receiving records as D-coordinators spent sleepless nights devising ways to stop Mike.

Sure, he could bust like many high drafted wideouts- but then again his pure physical nature combined with his two years of college stats predict a high probability of success in the NFL. Once this guy learns how to play in the big league, no cover corner will be able to stop him one on one. Defenses will have to honor that and things will open up for Portis- he won't have to see 9 stacking the box on first and second down. As the 1b receiver, Coles is gonna have a field day. There's gonna be a lot more room in the flat for Cooley as well. Williams isn't just another receiver, he's a weapon that changes the entire dynamic of the offense.
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Old 12-29-2004, 07:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by saden1
We don't need a Mike Willams. Coles will do as #1. and he is only 26. If you want to draft a #2, I can understand.
Just because we gave Coles a #1 WR contract it does not mean that he is one. No seperation and sometimes suspect hands. He's a good #2 but a trainwreck as a #1...
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Old 12-29-2004, 07:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itvnetop
My school of thought is you don't trade down if someone of top 5 caliber is there for your pick (unless it's a qb that you can't use)... there was no way we were trading down from nabbing either sean taylor or kwII last year for a lower pick because both players had way too much potential to pass on.

Sure the skins can trade down and nab a decent DE and O-lineman... But I was reading the Clinton Portis article in the Post today and it says despite the switch to zone blocking, CP can't run on 8 and 9 man fronts. I don't care if you put Orlando Pace on our line, Portis still ain't gonna have success against those numbers.

Basically meaning, if our only perceived threat is Portis, we need to find another threat. I love Coles to death, but even if he's healthy would anyone argue that having Mike opposite him is detrimental to the overall scheme of the offense? We've mentioned Roy Williams, Michael Clayton, Lee Evans, and Anquan Boldin all having first year impacts. You look at their respective offenses, and they are not much different that the Skins: Detroit with Harrington/Jones, TB with Johnson/Pittman, Bills with Bledsoe/McGahee, AZ with whoever. How would Williams not be able to contribute immediately?

The skins would at least have to take a look at the physical freak that Mike is... he's a healthy 6-5 and weighs 228 pounds. You can't teach that size. He came to USC b/c the florida schools tried to recruit him as a TE, thinking he couldn't play the wideout position.

He's not just big, he was the strongest receiver in the land his sophmore year. He runs routes and he never drops the ball. He's not just potential either... in just two years in school:

frosh year: 81 catches/1265 yards/14 TDs
soph year: 95 catches/1314 yards/16 TDs

His first year, Carson Palmer won the Heisman after four years of ineptitude as SC's quarterback... part of the reason lies with Norm Chow's schemes... BMW was responsible for the other half.

His soph year, Matt Leinart became a Heisman finalist his first year starting as QB- you can attribute most of that Williams as well.

That said, the guy is just plain bigger than anyone who covers him (make that two or three guys that tried to cover him on any given play in college). When the Skins offense has been clicking the past month, we're still having problems in the red zone. You don't think Ramsey would love to have Mike back there for a fade route? People are also looking for a deep threat right? Who do you think was on the receiving end of Carson/Matt's fly routes for TDs? How good would Lavernues be with the secondary flowing towards Mike's side? Well, just ask Keary Colbert, who went on to set Trojan wide receiving records as D-coordinators spent sleepless nights devising ways to stop Mike.

Sure, he could bust like many high drafted wideouts- but then again his pure physical nature combined with his two years of college stats predict a high probability of success in the NFL. Once this guy learns how to play in the big league, no cover corner will be able to stop him one on one. Defenses will have to honor that and things will open up for Portis- he won't have to see 9 stacking the box on first and second down. As the 1b receiver, Coles is gonna have a field day. There's gonna be a lot more room in the flat for Cooley as well. Williams isn't just another receiver, he's a weapon that changes the entire dynamic of the offense.
I completely agree...
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Old 12-29-2004, 08:02 PM   #22
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coles IS a #1 reciever, he has blazing speed and good hands...back to back 1200 yard seasons prove that, and back to back to back 80 catch seasons prove that. just because he has had to deal with QB inconsitency doesnt mean he isnt a #1...
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Old 12-30-2004, 12:45 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
I tend to agree with you on not letting the cap dictate your draft strategy.
So would Daniel Snyder.
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Old 12-30-2004, 12:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celts32
Just because we gave Coles a #1 WR contract it does not mean that he is one. No seperation and sometimes suspect hands. He's a good #2 but a trainwreck as a #1...
WOW! So the "experts" who said we overpaid Coles were right? There is maybe 1 number 2 WR in the league paid like Coles (Issac Bruce). No separation? What film have you been watching? I've seen him get tons of separation (when we had Brunell in, but Brunell couldn't get him the ball). You don't get tons of separation on 5 yard curls (which is what he's been running 50% of the time with Ramsey under center). Suspect hand? Again, what are you watching?

I haven't heard someone this critical of Coles since, we'll the scouts who put him as a 3rd rounder coming out of the draft. The same scouts who said Peter Warrick was the best WR to come out of the draft in years.
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Old 12-30-2004, 12:53 AM   #25
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If people think our wideouts are the reasons we aren't getting big gain completions, it's about time to get new glasses. Could someone please tell me how you are supposed to get 25+ yard gains when 90% of the passes are thrown to receivers running 5 yard curls and flanker screens?

So many people on this site were so high on Coles last season. Now, those voices are silent. Any fairweather fans in the house?
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Old 12-30-2004, 09:16 AM   #26
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Did someone say Coles has been a trainwreck as a #1 WR??

The guy is on pace to set his career high with catches and be only the 2nd WR in team history with over 90 catches, all while playing through injuries that a lot of guys wouldn't, and an ultra conservative scheme to boot.
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Old 12-30-2004, 10:13 AM   #27
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Coles is far from a bad receiver. His hands have been somewhat suspect this year around the finger injury (go figure) but besides that I can't think of a single dropped ball. That being said, Coles needs to do whatever is necessary to get healthy in order to be a #1 receiver.

I agree, I saw him open a bunch with Brunell in, but now that we have a guy with an arm we don't let them run long enough to get open!

Mike Williams is a big guy, but he's also slow as a tank. Im very curious to see his combine numbers. If he's able to post a decent 40 time I'd think about it. He's a good receiver (even though I hate SC and Miami) they are respected programs that can build good players. I still don't consider SC a football farm like Miami, especially since they lost their athletic director, but they are on their way.

I'm not against Mike Williams at all, right now he's #1 on my board, but he has been out of football for some time. Either way, we should draft offense this year!
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Old 12-30-2004, 10:33 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celts32
Just because we gave Coles a #1 WR contract it does not mean that he is one. No seperation and sometimes suspect hands. He's a good #2 but a trainwreck as a #1...
You have got to be kidding.

True, he hasn't put up the numbers that he did last fall, but he's been hurt. I bet half the league would love to have Coles as their #1. He's gonna have 90+ receptions this year. Not bad for a guy who has a bad foot, dislocated finger, and probably some other stuff he hasn't told anybody. On top of that, he played 9 games with Mark Brunell (the same Brunell that had several 58 yd games).

Give me a break.
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Old 12-30-2004, 11:42 AM   #29
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I said it. The guy drops a lot of passes. And I don't care about his injuries to his hands and legs and whatever else he has. I would be happy if it were possible to go through every pass thrown to Coles this season and count the drops. And everyone wants to talk about his stats. He has amassed the most meaningless stats of any Redskin WR in the history of the team. Where are the TD's? Where are the big catches when we have to have one? List me 5 huge game changing plays that Coles has made in the past 2 years and I will retract the comment. Other #1 WR's make these types of plays weekly. I am sorry i just don't see it from him. Gardner has made more big plays as a Redskin and we all agree that his Redskin days are numbered. The QB play is part of the problem, I don't deny that. I just have a higher expectation of a #1 WR. A #1 WR should be capable of dominating a CB and taking over a game. I don't see that from Coles. #1 WR's score TD's and Coles has 1 this year and 7 overall as a Redskin. Gardner has 10 over the same 2 years. I think coles is good #2 WR. Feel free to disagree, but it won't change my mind.
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Old 12-30-2004, 11:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celts32
Where are the TD's? Where are the big catches when we have to have one? List me 5 huge game changing plays that Coles has made in the past 2 years and I will retract the comment. Other #1 WR's make these types of plays weekly.

You need a good QB for all of those things.
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