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Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

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Old 08-16-2011, 01:24 PM   #61
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

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Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
ANY other team? Really? He has shown folks that he is THE BEST tight end in the NFL? [That is what it means to say he would start on ANY other team!]

Davis is a starting caliber TE. He would not leave here to be a backup anywhere else, therefore, any other team interested in his services would have him as the starting TE.
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Old 08-16-2011, 03:00 PM   #62
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

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In a perfect world (or Madden), you would want Chris Johnson as your starting RB and Adrian Peterson as your backup. Peyton Manning as your starting QB and Tom Brady coming off the bench. Trent Williams backing up Ryan Clady and so on.

However, in the real world, teams always have needs and holes to fill. To have two guys with starter skill sets is basically a waste. It's funny you ask about that philosophy if X person goes down. Let's look at some examples. Bill Bellicheat had Tom Brady go down. Matt Cassell comes in and tears it up. Did he keep that starting caliber QB on his team, even after a year where his starting QB went down with a injury? Nope. Traded for draft pick (even though he could have gotten a 1st for him) Andy Reid has now done it twice. Trading away starting caliber QBs when he already had one currently. In a perfect world we would, but again, there are generally other needs on teams to do this.

I challenge you both to find me one team (past or present) that has carried two pro-bowl caliber Tight Ends on their roster, or a team that has sent two TEs to the pro-bowl (or all pro) in the same season. No, teams normally have one blocking specialist and one pass catching specialist. (the great TEs do both well) I know fans keep saying, FIND A WAY TO USE BOTH, but it's not quite that simple and history shows you otherwise.

I will say this. You don't trade a person just to trade them. If you can't find value in the person you are trading, its more often better to keep them just for insurance purposes. That's the problem with the TE position. It more often or not will not net you good draft picks unless a team is in a desperate situation or feel that is a crucial piece in the remaining puzzle of theirs. In our situation, we should have traded Cooley the moment we saw what Davis could do. (providing we got value in return) That time has come and gone and better for us to just keep Cooley unless value can be met.

It's a money game and the key is which starting caliber player you should keep. In the case of Patriots they kept their older stud all-pro QB. Of course if you can't pay them both someone will eventually have to go but you better damn make sure you try to keep them both first.

There are lots of teams with two starting caliber TE. It's just that they don't all get the opportunity to play. And of course you have teams like the Seahawks who added an additional starting caliber TE and the Panthers who aquaired Olsen and Shockey during the off season. Patriots also have two very capable TE who can start for any team. Some teams like the Vikings are stocking up for the future by drafting a first class TE in Kyle Rudolph and with Shiancoe on the team.
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Old 08-16-2011, 03:03 PM   #63
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

TE is one of the positions where we have quality depth. If Davis needs to start I'm sure he'll be productive like he was in 09. But Cooley has little trade value.
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Old 08-16-2011, 06:30 PM   #64
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

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Anyone know how bad CC's knee might actually be? I wasnt all that worried about it early on, but with him seeing Dr. Andrews yesterday and likely out for the rest of preseason and maybe more makes me think that there might be a legit issue. I mean it doesnt sound like he hurt it, but rather just aggregated it? Is it a ligament, cartilage, muscel, bone?
i think the lockout really hurt his ability to recover quickly, it sounds worse than they are letting on
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Old 08-16-2011, 08:03 PM   #65
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

CC said yesterday he would be shocked if he's not ready for the opener. He said they had the wrong plan in place before, but now they're on the right track.

Cooley says he expects to play Week One | ProFootballTalk
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:34 PM   #66
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

...buuuuut Cooleys better.

Cooley top of his game > Freds top game
I think Fred should figure out to make plays off the #2.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:53 PM   #67
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

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Man that one time incident has just become an endless joke hasn't it
I missed that one , sorry , i forgot to set my alarm clock
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:09 PM   #68
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

Every good team knows when to adjust personnel, we want to get younger, faster, stronger.. more dynamic, unless its at the expense of the guy whose jersey we pretty much all own..

So if cooley slows down or starts getting the injury bug, we don't re-sign Davis (it will take him being a starter) we're left to figure out the position from the ground up..

I say we give Davis the opportunity, if he proves himself pay the man, and then figure out where Cooley fits in..
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Old 08-17-2011, 12:29 AM   #69
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

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...buuuuut Cooleys better.

Cooley top of his game > Freds top game
I think Fred should figure out to make plays off the #2.
I don't know about that since Davis had nearly 700 yards in just 9 starts. The only knock on him is his blocking is all but then again Cooley is no prize at that either...now Witten, that mofo can be a starting gaurd in the league.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:25 AM   #70
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

I don't get the urgency that people have to trade Cooley and/or start Davis. What's so terrible about having two quality tight ends? I think by the end of the season, if both Cooley and Davis perform well, the team will be in a good position to keep one player and trade the other. In the end, the goal should be to get the most out of both players and help the team win games, period.
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Old 08-17-2011, 06:01 AM   #71
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

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I don't get the urgency that people have to trade Cooley and/or start Davis. What's so terrible about having two quality tight ends? I think by the end of the season, if both Cooley and Davis perform well, the team will be in a good position to keep one player and trade the other. In the end, the goal should be to get the most out of both players and help the team win games, period.
At the end of the year Davis is a free agent and will go where he can start
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:57 PM   #72
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

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Davis is a starting caliber TE. He would not leave here to be a backup anywhere else, therefore, any other team interested in his services would have him as the starting TE.
That is a VASTLY different statement than Davis could start for ANY other team.

In your re-formulated statement, Davis could be better than only 1 TE in the league who started last year to draw the attention of that one team who might want him to be their starter next year.

In your original statement, Davis had to be the best TE in all of the NFL for it to be correct.

For the record, there is no way on Planet Earth that Fred Davis is now or will be at the end of the 2011 NFL season the best TE in the NFL.

Could he be a starter for 10 NFL teams next season? Possibly.

Could he be a starter for 5 teams in the NFL next season? For sure.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:32 PM   #73
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

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At the end of the year Davis is a free agent and will go where he can start
So the team can tag him if they seem fit to do so or extend him if he excels this season. I think both Cooley and Davis need to have a good year regardless and the trade talk is a bit premature (unless the team wants to gamble on keeping Davis and trading Cooley for little value).
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:41 PM   #74
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

I'm not saying trade Cooley now, just it's not to soon to put Davis in and make it his job to lose, with the weight loss and speed increase they should find ways to get him.time at TE, WR, and maybe out of the backfield
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Old 08-17-2011, 11:02 PM   #75
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Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis

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So the team can tag him if they seem fit to do so or extend him if he excels this season. I think both Cooley and Davis need to have a good year regardless and the trade talk is a bit premature (unless the team wants to gamble on keeping Davis and trading Cooley for little value).
You're tagging Davis over Landry though? I mean, I'm a huge Fred Davis backer, but Landry is the only piece in our secondary I actually expect on this team three seasons from now.

If the plan is to make Davis the starter, there won't be a need to use the franchise tag on him because we can pretty much match his market value effortlessly. No one is giving him a Derrick Dockery Buffalo contract. If he's going to be a backup here though, he can pretty much walk and go get paid like a starter elsewhere.

Basically, we just need to make a decision. Chris Cooley and Logan Paulsen is a very good one-two at TE. But if that's not the future of our TE position, then Davis needs to start, immediately. Not next year. Now.
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