Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


Smoot Lays The Smack Down (Redskins vs. Colts)

Redskins Locker Room


Reply
 
LinkBack (1) Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-22-2011, 09:12 PM   #91
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,810
Re: Smoot Lays The Smack Down (Redskins vs. Colts)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLC1054 View Post
I saw it. I just didn't see any opportunity when the Redskins "needed" to stretch the field versus the Colts.
And I don't think I ever said there was a time against the Colts
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 08-22-2011, 09:14 PM   #92
Special Teams
 
NLC1054's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 279
Re: Smoot Lays The Smack Down (Redskins vs. Colts)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
You do not seem to grasp the concept of keeping a defense honest. If you want to run and throw short passes on long drives, as you stated above, you have to keep the safeties from creeping up. This is why everyone in the league takes strategic shots occasionally. Not all the time, just occasionally. And our average of one a game (at best) is not really "occasionally."

Your notion that it is IMPOSSIBLE to complete a deep ball on cover 2 is also problematic. It's difficult but not impossible, as evidenced by the fact that someone does it every week.

You seem to be bringing black-and-white thinking to a shades-of-grey topic.
I'm not saying you're wrong about safeties creeping up. Nor am I saying it's impossible to throw deep on a cover 2 defense.

I'm saying the Colts never dropped a safety into the box the entire game. I'm saying, in this one particular game, of which John Beck is taking criticism for, in which he was instructed by his offensive coordinator to take what the defense gave him, this particular defense dropped seven guys into coverage on nearly every down.

As I said before, their safeties were so deep, they were rarely on the screen. Keeping the defense honest, in this case, in this one particular case, was a moot point, because the safeties were never in the box, and were essentially being "kept honest" the entire game.

When they did bring a safety on a blitz, Beck picked it up and hit Santana Moss on a cross route that went for the first down. They only dropped that safety into the box when the Redskins were on their 20 in the red zone.

The rest of the time, despite the short passes and the running game, the Colts never put a safety in the box. You can't "keep a defense honest" when they've already shown that they have no intention of letting you get deep on them, short passes and run game be damned.

I fully expect the gameplan to be different versus the Ravens. I'm just stating that I don't think it's fair to criticize John for not "taking a shot" to keep a defense honest that was already paying things pretty honest.
NLC1054 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 09:19 PM   #93
Special Teams
 
NLC1054's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 279
Re: Smoot Lays The Smack Down (Redskins vs. Colts)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis View Post
Matt Schaub attempted forty 20+ yard passes last season out of 574 attempts. He attempted 48 20+ yard passes in 2009 out of 583 attempts, which was Kyle Shanahan's last season there.

Andre Johnson's also had a 1500+ yard season in 2009. What this means is that a hell of a lot of the yards he got were from short and intermediate passes.

The Texans had a remarkably efficient passing game, and they didn't go deep that often.

Besides, with the touchback off kickoffs as king this season, teams will have to be able to move the chains or suffer in the field position battle.
If you don't mind me asking, where did you get that info?
NLC1054 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 10:04 PM   #94
Mann Up HOF!
 
Lotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 10,789
Re: Smoot Lays The Smack Down (Redskins vs. Colts)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLC1054 View Post
I'm not saying you're wrong about safeties creeping up. Nor am I saying it's impossible to throw deep on a cover 2 defense.

I'm saying the Colts never dropped a safety into the box the entire game. I'm saying, in this one particular game, of which John Beck is taking criticism for, in which he was instructed by his offensive coordinator to take what the defense gave him, this particular defense dropped seven guys into coverage on nearly every down.

As I said before, their safeties were so deep, they were rarely on the screen. Keeping the defense honest, in this case, in this one particular case, was a moot point, because the safeties were never in the box, and were essentially being "kept honest" the entire game.

When they did bring a safety on a blitz, Beck picked it up and hit Santana Moss on a cross route that went for the first down. They only dropped that safety into the box when the Redskins were on their 20 in the red zone.

The rest of the time, despite the short passes and the running game, the Colts never put a safety in the box. You can't "keep a defense honest" when they've already shown that they have no intention of letting you get deep on them, short passes and run game be damned.

I fully expect the gameplan to be different versus the Ravens. I'm just stating that I don't think it's fair to criticize John for not "taking a shot" to keep a defense honest that was already paying things pretty honest.
I didn't criticize Beck at all. Not once. In fact I mentioned the Steelers game in which Beck did not play. I've been talking about our offensive scheme.

My basic argument has been that it would be helpful to take an occasional shot down the field and we have not done much of that to this point. I have admitted that the sample size is small and things can change. I cannot understand why this argument is so controversial or problematic for you.
__________________
Rooting for the Dallas Cowboys should be recognized as a treatable mental disorder.
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2011, 10:23 PM   #95
Living Legend
 
GTripp0012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 26
Posts: 15,994
Re: Smoot Lays The Smack Down (Redskins vs. Colts)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLC1054 View Post
I'm not saying you're wrong about safeties creeping up. Nor am I saying it's impossible to throw deep on a cover 2 defense.

I'm saying the Colts never dropped a safety into the box the entire game. I'm saying, in this one particular game, of which John Beck is taking criticism for, in which he was instructed by his offensive coordinator to take what the defense gave him, this particular defense dropped seven guys into coverage on nearly every down.

As I said before, their safeties were so deep, they were rarely on the screen. Keeping the defense honest, in this case, in this one particular case, was a moot point, because the safeties were never in the box, and were essentially being "kept honest" the entire game.

When they did bring a safety on a blitz, Beck picked it up and hit Santana Moss on a cross route that went for the first down. They only dropped that safety into the box when the Redskins were on their 20 in the red zone.

The rest of the time, despite the short passes and the running game, the Colts never put a safety in the box. You can't "keep a defense honest" when they've already shown that they have no intention of letting you get deep on them, short passes and run game be damned.

I fully expect the gameplan to be different versus the Ravens. I'm just stating that I don't think it's fair to criticize John for not "taking a shot" to keep a defense honest that was already paying things pretty honest.
I've made essentially this argument as a defense of a pretty efficient Mark Brunell before, so I'm sympathetic to what you're saying.

Modern passing offense has exploded since 2006 though, when the cover two was most prominent. You certainly don't have to throw deep to beat some of the more discipline-based defenses. Those true cover two teams are never going to cheat up on the shorter routes because the philosophy is to give up certain areas of the field. You can win simply by out executing them. They just like their chances.

The problem comes now that the cover two isn't prevalent anymore. You're basically certain to see a number of man to man coverages against any team in any game. Teams that can't go deep against man are going to get destroyed, because their run game is just going to get outnumbered. But thats a somewhat new development in the last four years.

If the Colts really did nothing but sit in two deep all day, which I don't doubt, it's only because it was the preseason. And that would explain John Beck's 14-17 day: he just killed a predictable coverage, as he should have.
__________________
according to a source with knowledge of the situation.
GTripp0012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 12:11 AM   #96
Special Teams
 
NLC1054's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 279
Re: Smoot Lays The Smack Down (Redskins vs. Colts)

I agree, GTripp, which is why I think the gameplan for the Ravens will be a lot different than it was here, and why Beck (provided he starts) will possibly take advantage of some holes in their secondary.

The Ravens are now playing a rookie, and a third year player who has only had 1 pass defensed and new interceptions in two seasons with the Ravens. And Bernard Pollard will probably be playing at strong safety, but I think he'll be in the box because he blows in coverage.

There's some holes to exploit there, with our first team offense, and I think Beck will take a few more shots with our vet receivers working on young players, especially with the Ravens gameplanning against us.

Going to be an interesting game.
NLC1054 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 12:25 AM   #97
Pro Bowl
 
SirClintonPortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,052
Re: Smoot Lays The Smack Down (Redskins vs. Colts)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLC1054 View Post
If you don't mind me asking, where did you get that info?
Espn.com stats. Go the "Splits" section. Scroll down a bit to "By Pass Play", and you'll see them.

Example: Peyton Manning Stats, Splits - Indianapolis Colts - ESPN
__________________
Analysis using datasets (aka stats) is an attempt at reverse-engineering a player's "goodness".

Virtuosity remembered, douchebaggery forgotten.

The ideal character profile shoved down modern Western men and women's throats is Don Juan.
SirClintonPortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 12:34 AM   #98
MVP
 
mooby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NoVa
Age: 26
Posts: 12,028
Re: Smoot Lays The Smack Down (Redskins vs. Colts)

What I want to know is when will ESPN's new qb rating become relevant. It feels like it's been virtually ignored by the entire media this preseason, and I figured they'd introduce it before the preseason to let people get acclimated to it through the preseason so it'd be more smooth sailing by the time the regular season started. Instead of hearing anything about the new qb rating method, I've seen multiple references to the old one, including analysts talking about how Grossman had a 107 (I think, not definite) qb rating against the Steelers.
mooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 12:46 AM   #99
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,810
Won't really happen overnight. Plus it's not meant to be an instant stat.

I'm in a meeting to talk about it next week actually. But I may skip it though.
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.24344 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25