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Who do you want to start at QB?

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View Poll Results: Who Do You Want Starting at QB Opening Day?
John Beck 123 73.65%
Rex Grossman 44 26.35%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-18-2011, 08:50 PM   #571
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Um...I don't even think I see what I did there...guess you read between the lines?
Yes. I agree with you.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:58 PM   #572
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

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Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
Frankly I am tired of all the (I think I am an expert on QB's) on this sight that make predictions about Qb's that have barely taken and NFL snap. Cam Newton is the most obvious person to point to.
All effing off season I had to endure listening to some idiots talking about how they were 100% sure Cam Newton will be terrible in the NFL. Failure.
You don't have to endure listening to anyone on this site. You can not read their posts or put them on your Ignore List.

Declaring Newton an NFL success at QB is a bit premature at best after 6 games, a 78.3 QB rating, two 3 INT games and a 1-5 record. May he reach the potential he has, maybe? Could he still win up a colossal bust, maybe?

Scouting Reports or summaries from some "idiots":

ProFootballWeekly.com - Cam Newton scouting report

From the PFW link: Can provide an initial spark, but will quickly be dissected and contained by NFL defensive coordinators, struggle to sustain success and will not prove worthy of an early investment. An overhyped, high-risk, high-reward selection with a glaring bust factor, Newton is sure to be drafted more highly than he should and could foreclose a risk-taking GM's job and taint a locker room.

Caution on Cam Newton From Mayock - NYTimes.com

Mayock had him rated as the third best QB.

ESPN's Mel Kiper compares Cam Newton to all-time bust Akili Smith

Kiper also said Newton had the "biggest upside and biggest risk".

Draft's biggest wild card: Is Cam Newton a boom or a bust? - USATODAY.com

"He has a first-round arm and first-round athleticism, but you just can't snap your fingers and say, 'He's NFL-ready,' " NFLDraftScout.com senior analyst Rob Rang said.
Added McShay: "People will ask about his one quote, that he wants to be an entertainer and icon. It raises questions about where his focus is. Do you love the game? Or do you love what the game brings you?
"It's hard to pass on Cam Newton's talent. But I think Blaine Gabbert's better."

Quote:
Before that. some of those 'experts' were saying Jimmy Clausen was going to be the best pro in his draft class and he was the most pro ready Qb coming out that year. He is now third string behind rookie Cam Newton.

Beck is also unknown. He started a few games for a terrible Dolphins team. Lets give him a look. That is all I ask.
If Beck is an unknown, why is Clausen not an unknown rather than a "3rd string" failure as you infer. Another team will give Clausen a look at some point and hopefully he'll make the most of that opportunity. Currently his record is 1-9 as a starter with a 58.3 QB rate. Not good by any standard, but he improved as the year went on despite playing 7 playoff teams in 10 starts.

Let's look at the others in that class: Tebow - jury's out, but serious limitiations as a passer. We'll find out about Tebow the rest of this year.

McCoy - 4-9 record as starter, 76.3 QB rate. Done some good things, might improve with better talent around him.

Bradford - 7-14 record as starter, 75.3 QB rate. Done some good things on a horrible team. I believe he'll be a solid NFL QB, but not an elite QB.

I haven't seen anyone on this site claim to be an "expert" on NFL QBs. This is a message board and folks come here to share their thoughts and opinions. Some folks agree, some don't, that's what makes it interesting. It's awful easy to bash someone's reasoned opinion on a QB/team/whatever after the fact as "idiotic" or a "Failure", hindsight is 20/20. If you didn't step up and put out a reasoned counter-opinion in my mind you don't have any grounds to criticize.

I wouldn't definitively call people out when the jury is still out on any QBs from the 2010 & 2011 draft classes.....but that's just my opinion, I'm no expert.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:01 PM   #573
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

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How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.
but he's 30. a 30 year old rookie is in no way impressive and probably won't light it up here after being passed on by other QB needy teams.

maybe he will, maybe he's rich gannon II, but i won't be putting money on it.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:47 PM   #574
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

You guys looks to much into age. This isn't Madden. You can't just have a roster full of 25 year old speedsters.

30 for a QB is still middle age and he just turned 30. He hasn't been beat up, and IF he does turn out to be a solid QB.. Then why couldn't he play here for 4-5 years while we groom a QB "Rogers Style"?
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:57 PM   #575
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

It's not that he's 30. It's that he's 30 and has yet to prove anything.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:34 AM   #576
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

If I wake up tomorrow and see that Rex is starting via source... I'm going back to bed for the rest of the day.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:52 AM   #577
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
It's not that he's 30. It's that he's 30 and has yet to prove anything.
I got a good question....when has he had opportunity to prove anything?

Rex has gotten rediculous amounts of oppertunity

Remember what our beloved Darrell Green said " No matter how much talent you have it don't mean a thing if no one gives you the opportunity"

Last edited by pg86; 10-19-2011 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:14 AM   #578
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

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I got a good question....when has he had opportunity to prove anything?

Rex has gotten rediculous amounts of oppertunity

Remember what our beloved Darrell Green said " No matter how much talent you have it don't mean a thing if no one gives you the opportunity"
he's already failed in two cities. if you can't win the job, why would you think he'd be better than the guys he can't beat outright? It's not like he was sitting behind tom brady. he missed his shot in two VERY QB needy cities, and neither of those teams FO's had any problem letting him go.

step 3: winner?!?
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:54 AM   #579
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

I think Grossman will be the starter, why? If he's your guy how can you justify pulling him after only 5 games? Mike knew up front Gross was a turnover machine from the getgo and all the BS from Gross about turning a new leaf doesn't change that fact! 8 games as the starting QB and 19 turnovers can not be hidden from the light of day!

Mike can not afford to lose the locker room no matter what. When he does go to Beck it better be with the best possible chance for John to shine and there are some really tough games coming up for you guys. Thus making the wrong choice at this early stage could cost this team the whole season, whereas now, you still have a chance to win more than you lose.

John will still get his chance cause Grossman will sooner or later stink the place up badly enought that even Moss won't be in his corner. Its at that point John has his best chance to not only win the starter's job but also make this team his, for the long haul!

Remember both I and John Beck have seen this play out before, in 2007. I'm sure John does not want a repeat of that mess caused by a 1st year HC making a move fed only by fan pressure! Way to early and without proper preparation!
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:23 AM   #580
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

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Originally Posted by pg86 View Post
I got a good question....when has he had opportunity to prove anything?

Rex has gotten rediculous amounts of oppertunity

Remember what our beloved Darrell Green said " No matter how much talent you have it don't mean a thing if no one gives you the opportunity"
You have to make your opportunities and every time Beck gets a chance, whether with Miami or in camp competition with Rex, he hasnt made the most of those opportunities. Beck has had opportunities and hasnt stepped up, hopefully if he gets a 3rd opportunity this week he will finally make the most of it.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:30 AM   #581
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

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Originally Posted by gafinfan View Post
I think Grossman will be the starter, why? If he's your guy how can you justify pulling him after only 5 games? Mike knew up front Gross was a turnover machine from the getgo and all the BS from Gross about turning a new leaf doesn't change that fact! 8 games as the starting QB and 19 turnovers can not be hidden from the light of day!

Mike can not afford to lose the locker room no matter what. When he does go to Beck it better be with the best possible chance for John to shine and there are some really tough games coming up for you guys. Thus making the wrong choice at this early stage could cost this team the whole season, whereas now, you still have a chance to win more than you lose.

John will still get his chance cause Grossman will sooner or later stink the place up badly enought that even Moss won't be in his corner. Its at that point John has his best chance to not only win the starter's job but also make this team his, for the long haul!

Remember both I and John Beck have seen this play out before, in 2007. I'm sure John does not want a repeat of that mess caused by a 1st year HC making a move fed only by fan pressure! Way to early and without proper preparation!
Good point, if Shanny does put in Beck he wants it to be in the best possible position so he can succeed. With the first of 2 away games and a decimated O line I dont see this week as a good spot for success. Like you I think Rex will end up as the starter.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:39 AM   #582
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

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Originally Posted by pg86 View Post
I got a good question....when has he had opportunity to prove anything?

Rex has gotten rediculous amounts of oppertunity

Remember what our beloved Darrell Green said " No matter how much talent you have it don't mean a thing if no one gives you the opportunity"
Beck just got an opportunity as recently as two months ago.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:40 AM   #583
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

This thread is hilarious. Hearing support for Grossman and putting Becks on a pedestal. Our QB situation is truely inept and one of the worst situations in the league. Honest opinion from Grossman supporters, is it really taking a risk in starting Beck that crazy? Grossman is one of the worst rated QB in the league and his play is declining since the start of the season...how can people support this guy playing? Just baffled
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:42 AM   #584
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

18 turnovers for Rex in his 8 starts here. He's just killing us.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:50 AM   #585
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Re: Who do you want to start at QB?

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
You don't have to endure listening to anyone on this site. You can not read their posts or put them on your Ignore List.

Declaring Newton an NFL success at QB is a bit premature at best after 6 games, a 78.3 QB rating, two 3 INT games and a 1-5 record. May he reach the potential he has, maybe? Could he still win up a colossal bust, maybe?

Scouting Reports or summaries from some "idiots":

ProFootballWeekly.com - Cam Newton scouting report

From the PFW link: Can provide an initial spark, but will quickly be dissected and contained by NFL defensive coordinators, struggle to sustain success and will not prove worthy of an early investment. An overhyped, high-risk, high-reward selection with a glaring bust factor, Newton is sure to be drafted more highly than he should and could foreclose a risk-taking GM's job and taint a locker room.

Caution on Cam Newton From Mayock - NYTimes.com

Mayock had him rated as the third best QB.

ESPN's Mel Kiper compares Cam Newton to all-time bust Akili Smith

Kiper also said Newton had the "biggest upside and biggest risk".

Draft's biggest wild card: Is Cam Newton a boom or a bust? - USATODAY.com

"He has a first-round arm and first-round athleticism, but you just can't snap your fingers and say, 'He's NFL-ready,' " NFLDraftScout.com senior analyst Rob Rang said.
Added McShay: "People will ask about his one quote, that he wants to be an entertainer and icon. It raises questions about where his focus is. Do you love the game? Or do you love what the game brings you?
"It's hard to pass on Cam Newton's talent. But I think Blaine Gabbert's better."

If Beck is an unknown, why is Clausen not an unknown rather than a "3rd string" failure as you infer. Another team will give Clausen a look at some point and hopefully he'll make the most of that opportunity. Currently his record is 1-9 as a starter with a 58.3 QB rate. Not good by any standard, but he improved as the year went on despite playing 7 playoff teams in 10 starts.

Let's look at the others in that class: Tebow - jury's out, but serious limitiations as a passer. We'll find out about Tebow the rest of this year.

McCoy - 4-9 record as starter, 76.3 QB rate. Done some good things, might improve with better talent around him.

Bradford - 7-14 record as starter, 75.3 QB rate. Done some good things on a horrible team. I believe he'll be a solid NFL QB, but not an elite QB.

I haven't seen anyone on this site claim to be an "expert" on NFL QBs. This is a message board and folks come here to share their thoughts and opinions. Some folks agree, some don't, that's what makes it interesting. It's awful easy to bash someone's reasoned opinion on a QB/team/whatever after the fact as "idiotic" or a "Failure", hindsight is 20/20. If you didn't step up and put out a reasoned counter-opinion in my mind you don't have any grounds to criticize.

I wouldn't definitively call people out when the jury is still out on any QBs from the 2010 & 2011 draft classes.....but that's just my opinion, I'm no expert.
I never declared Cam Newton a success, nor was that the point of my post. He could still flake out or steal a lap top.
My point was not to put down Clausen to prop up Cam as some of you inferred. I am sorry if that is what you took from it.
My point was we do not know what we have in Beck or any other Qb (Newton, Clausen, etc.) that has never played or played very little in the NFL.
I was replying to those that implied Grossman = Beck, Beck = Grossman in ability. We still do not know what we have in Beck because he has yet to even start a regular season game for the Redskins. Much less has he started 5 or 10 games for us like Grossman has.
We will soon see if Shanahan will allow it.
I do not post on this sight much, especially on those threads that seek to demonize people and players. A bold opinion is one thing, but rushing to judgment on a player who has started 4 games in his career or has never played in the NFL and claiming to be something (great, bad, average) is premature. Tom Brady and Joe Montana were drafted and rated low. But they got their chance and made the best of it. I am NOT saying Beck will be the next Tom Brady. But lets see what we have.

Last edited by Defensewins; 10-19-2011 at 08:51 AM.
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