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Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

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Old 08-29-2011, 09:27 PM   #151
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

This thread reeks of ...damn we are desperate for some damn football...we need something to fight for!!

C'mon Regular season!!

Who really gives a crap?
I could care less...just snap the damn ball already!
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:32 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsnut View Post
This thread reeks of ...damn we are desperate for some damn football...we need something to fight for!!

C'mon Regular season!!

Who really gives a crap?
I could care less...just snap the damn ball already!
LOL. Hate to break it to you, but I'm sure this topic will be brought back during the regular season.


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Old 08-29-2011, 09:39 PM   #153
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

Didn't recap on the threads I missed while I was gone, but I'm sure it's full of Gtripp talking more about Hall and how he disappoints his greatest expectations.

I will say that we will never see eye, to eye on this subject as I support Hall and all he's done while in a Redskins uniform, and i'm excited to see what our secondary can do when we are at full strength with a great pass rush for once.

For every negative, I can bring back a positive. So i'll just let it go, and let D. Hall do the talking this season
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:42 PM   #154
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

So this thread hasn't crossed over into question 3 territory, but I have a feeling it might give it a run for it's money before the season's over.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:26 PM   #155
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
How can you post this and not think people would say you're hating?
Why would they? I don't follow the thought process.

I'm a wrong to laugh up the pro bowl MVP award? Who in their right mind uses that?

How is that different from the Carlos Rogers media good guy award, something I didn't cite because it has nothing to do with anything?
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:29 PM   #156
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

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Why would they? I don't follow the thought process.

Because you question the facts that I state about Hall, and shake your head, but bring your own to the table thinking they are better without question. Then get confused when people think you're biased because your only open minded to your own opinions and not anyone elses.

You hate Hall.. Point blank, end thread. Period.... We've come come to understand this.

To put this thread back on toward it's topic. I do think Hall has a long way to go to be compared to D. Green, and Bailey, but at 27 I think he is now going into his prime, and after having a great year last season even in one of the worse defenses, I think the only way he can go is up.

I would put him top 10 at the moment for Redskin DB greats.
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Last edited by Bucket; 08-29-2011 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:32 PM   #157
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

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Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
Because you question the facts that I state about Hall, and shake your head, but bring your own to the table thinking they are better without question. Then get confused when people think you're biased because your only open minded to your own opinions and not anyone elses.

You hate Hall.. Point blank, end thread. Period.... We've come come to understand this.
If I hate Hall, then you hate me. Sorry, but if critical equals hate, you're a GTripp hater. End of thread.

I think if you spent less time psychoanalyzing what I think, this thread would be far more productive and less-time consuming.

Let's call this what it is: you're not biased against me. You just think I'm wrong. I'm not biased against DHall. I just think you're wrong.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:48 PM   #158
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

I'm here speaking on D. Hall, and have no opinion of you what so ever. I hear your opinions about how you feel about D. Hall, and I state my own. That is how forum boards work most of the time. I simply speak on behalf of your posts, and how you present them. I do not break it down and actually construct towards the poster himself.

I disagree with your opinions because you haven't given me a reason to change my mind or undo my thoughts about how I feel about D. Hall, and his place in the Redskins secondary for the present or future.

I didn't think I labeled the thread, "Why I think Gtripp is wrong" I simply wanted the opinion of a large scale Washington fan base, but there has been many posts thinking you are biased towards Hall even before I made this thread. None so vice versa.
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Last edited by Bucket; 08-29-2011 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:52 PM   #159
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

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Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
Because you question the facts that I state about Hall, and shake your head, but bring your own to the table thinking they are better without question. Then get confused when people think you're biased because your only open minded to your own opinions and not anyone elses.
This is to both you and SmootSmack.

The reason why this position makes no sense to me is that the argument is circular.

Here's my diagram of it.

Stats hate DeAngelo Hall -> Only people who use CB stats are Hall haters -> GTripp likes to use stats -> GTripp is a Hall Hater -> GTripp likes to use stats because of hate for Hall -> Those who agree with GTripp or stats hate Hall -> I appreciate Hall -> The stats GTripp uses are wrong -> GTripp can't see the stats are wrong because he hates Hall.

Circular reasoning is fallacious and can lead to fallacious conclusions.

Not one of the premises above is true, but all are believed to lead to the final conclusion.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:55 PM   #160
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
I would put him top 10 at the moment for Redskin DB greats.
Not to nitpick, but if you consider Safeties he's got a ton of work to do to get into the Top 10 Redskin DB greats:

D. Green
Champ Bailey
Pat Fischer
Paul Krause
Joe Lavender
Mike Bass
Sammy Baugh (if he's considered a CB and not a S)

Ken Houston, Brig Owens, Sean Taylor, Mark Murphy
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:55 PM   #161
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
I'm here speaking on D. Hall, and have no opinion of you what so ever. I hear your opinions about how you feel about D. Hall, and I state my own. That is how forum boards work most of the time. I simply speak on behalf of your posts, and how you present them. I do not break it down and actually construct towards the poster himself.

I disagree with your opinions because you haven't given me a reason to change my mind or undo my thoughts about how I feel about D. Hall, and his place in the Redskins secondary for the present or future.

I didn't think I labeled the thread, "Why I think Gtripp is wrong" I simply wanted the opinion of a large scale Washington fan base, but there has been many posts thinking you are biased towards Hall even before I made this thread. None so vice versa.
None? I think you're just uninformed. I have a pro-Hall post or two in this thread. Again, you stated you didn't go back and read because you could just assume what my position is.

The fact that my posts which support the premise that Hall isn't very good outnumber the ones that suggest we're lucky to have him is NOT indicative of bias. It's you're attempt to prove otherwise that has drawn my ire.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:58 PM   #162
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
This is to both you and SmootSmack.

The reason why this position makes no sense to me is that the argument is circular.

Here's my diagram of it.

Stats hate DeAngelo Hall -> Only people who use CB stats are Hall haters -> GTripp likes to use stats -> GTripp is a Hall Hater -> GTripp likes to use stats because of hate for Hall -> Those who agree with GTripp or stats hate Hall -> I appreciate Hall -> The stats GTripp uses are wrong -> GTripp can't see the stats are wrong because he hates Hall.

Circular reasoning is fallacious and can lead to fallacious conclusions.

Not one of the premises above is true, but all are believed to lead to the final conclusion.
Like I said, and you must of missed it because of your blind hatred.

Stats are misleading. We had the 31st ranked defense, and even though our secondary was weak because we lost Landry, and Moore was our starting FS. Our Dline, LB's were more to blame and it's not only my opinion.

Defense works together, and a great CB can be molded from a great defense. There is many reasons why some players leave systems on both offense and defense and don't excel in other programs.

So comparing a CB stats for yards giving up etc when the defense was NEVER off the field for most games, and we had one of the worse pass rushes in the NFL is kinda like saying Tom Brady sucked in the Super Bowl against the Giants, and it had nothing to do with his Oline breaking down.

Or Randy Moss playing for the Raiders, and then coming to the Pats to have one of his best seasons in his career?

But we are biased because of your "stats"
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:00 PM   #163
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Not to nitpick, but if you consider Safeties he's got a ton of work to do to get into the Top 10 Redskin DB greats:

D. Green
Champ Bailey
Pat Fischer
Paul Krause
Joe Lavender
Mike Bass
Sammy Baugh (if he's considered a CB and not a S)

Ken Houston, Brig Owens, Sean Taylor, Mark Murphy

It was a typo on my part, and I mean CB'.s Yes, Hall has a long way to go if you include in ALL DB'S. I agree...
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:03 PM   #164
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
None? I think you're just uninformed. I have a pro-Hall post or two in this thread. Again, you stated you didn't go back and read because you could just assume what my position is.

The fact that my posts which support the premise that Hall isn't very good outnumber the ones that suggest we're lucky to have him is NOT indicative of bias. It's you're attempt to prove otherwise that has drawn my ire.
Like I said.. This is your opinion, and it will continue to be no matter how hard you attempt to jam them down someones throat.. I think we are lucky to have him. Our starting secondary could be Westbrook, and Wilson,

Not that I have anything against Westbrook, but I don't think he'll ever form into a starting 1/2 CB, but then again, I could be wrong, and it's my opinion.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:14 PM   #165
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Re: Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
Like I said, and you must of missed it because of your blind hatred.

Stats are misleading. We had the 31st ranked defense, and even though our secondary was weak because we lost Landry, and Moore was our starting FS. Our Dline, LB's were more to blame and it's not only my opinion.

Defense works together, and a great CB can be molded from a great defense. There is many reasons why some players leave systems on both offense and defense and don't excel in other programs.

So comparing a CB stats for yards giving up etc when the defense was NEVER off the field for most games, and we had one of the worse pass rushes in the NFL is kinda like saying Tom Brady sucked in the Super Bowl against the Giants, and it had nothing to do with his Oline breaking down.

Or Randy Moss playing for the Raiders, and then coming to the Pats to have one of his best seasons in his career?

But we are biased because of your "stats"
Stop. Please stop. Let's recap:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
By the way, the "accepted" yardage conversion for an interception, if you assume 100% credit to the interceptor, is 45 yards. You could argue that either way, but that's the number that people who work with stats seem to be comfortable with. No, it's not set in stone.

5 x 45 = 225 yards created by DeAngelo Hall through his interceptions in 2010. If you want to add in his two TDs at 20 yards per event, we're up to 265 yards of value "created" by DeAngelo Hall in 2010. Eyeballing that, this is somewhere between half a win and a win added to the 2010 Redskins thanks to positive plays by DeAngelo Hall.

This all assumes that Jay Cutler and Johnnie Knox/Devin Hester were at zero percent fault for those four INTs in Chicago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
My thoughts exactly. For every stat someone points to that says Hall is a bum, there's another one that would suggest otherwise. It is what it is.
GTripp's Response: that's not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
How many times are WR's or QB's not at fault during a INT? See? You're arguement is totally biased on the fact that all your negative approach toward D. Hall is based on your OWN belief that he's not a good CB for the Redskins.

In that total yardage allowed by Hall.. How many times did Moore, or Doughty/Horton blow coverage and not help over the top? How many times did the QB have more then 3 seconds to throw, or were we in Zone coverage? Blitz?

It's all biased statistical information and not even halfway accurate to what D. Hall actually does on the field. He produces plays..

2 defensive TD's, Pro Bowl, Pro Bowl MVP, 16 pass deflection, 6 INT's, and 95 tackles. All on the 31st ranked defense in the NFL

Sorry but there is not much more to argue about that.
What GTripp thought as soon as you posted this: that's a mostly silly response that addresses none of what I actually said. He called the numbers biased. The guy who thinks I have a bias thinks the numbers themselves have a bias His only point here that amounts to anything about trolling is that Hall's teammates were lackluster (bolded). Does such trolling really deserve a legit response?

What I actually replied with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
LOL at pro bowl MVP. Quit with the biased crap. Stick to facts.
Now here was the crux of the argument, the knockout punch if you will:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012 View Post
The 31st total ranking is entirely based on total yards against. DeAngelo Hall gives up more yards against than any other corner. The correlation between the Redskins hemmorhaging yards and Hall's performance is a perfect one.

No one thinks Hall is the only problem, that's just you twisting the argument I'm making. But no one player is responsible for lowing his teams defensive ranking than DeAngelo Hall, at least according to game charting numbers. Lets stick only to the facts and leave emotions out of it.

Remember, the NFL yards rankings dont include INTs or touchdowns, so if you think those are valuable things then Hall simply doesn't play on the second worst defense in the league. His teammates have their issues, but they're much better than bucket is giving them credit for.
The responses all said pretty much the same thing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
CB play was the least responsible area for that entire unit's 31st ranking. Saftey, LB and a league worst DL far more responsible for that ranking. Maybe if Fat Alberta woulda acted like a man maybe the DL woulda been better.
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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
But see you laugh at the facts and stats Bucket produced, while at the same time holding up your own "facts" and stats to prove otherwise.

Is the real argument you're right and we're wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
How can you post this and not think people would say you're hating?
This thread has so much god d- noise in it, and for my part in that, I apologize. Nothing here is remotely evidence of hating.
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Last edited by GTripp0012; 08-29-2011 at 11:18 PM.
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