Scud's Studs (12th off the bench): Cards vs. Skins

vallin21 · 09-19-2011, 01:00 AM

Am I the only one that thinks Hightower is slightly overrated as a runner? It took Hightower 20 carries to get to 96 yds, while Helu had 10 carries for 74 yds. The only knock on Helu is that he's not a good pass blocker.

Also, I'm not buying Shanahan's comment that Hightower was "tired". TH didn't play at all in the 2nd half, but for a couple of plays. I think Shanahan's seeing that Helu, with the exception of Pass Pro, is a more productive running and pass catching back than Hightower is.

12thMan · 09-19-2011, 01:08 AM

We don't know what Helu is like starting the game and getting the bulk of the carries. While Helu is a good change of pace back, Hightower is the pacesetter, if you will. He gets the offense in a rhythm, which helps Rex out a lot.

Not to suggest that Helu isn't starting material, but I think for now the combination is right.

mooby · 09-19-2011, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallin21

Am I the only one that thinks Hightower is slightly overrated as a runner? It took Hightower 20 carries to get to 96 yds, while Helu had 10 carries for 74 yds. The only knock on Helu is that he's not a good pass blocker.

Also, I'm not buying Shanahan's comment that Hightower was "tired". TH didn't play at all in the 2nd half, but for a couple of plays. I think Shanahan's seeing that Helu, with the exception of Pass Pro, is a more productive running and pass catching back than Hightower is.

Yes. Also, running backs do get tired. But even if they didn't, it doesn't hurt to change it up once in a while. Especially when you've got two different backs that complement each other like Hightower and Helu do. Not only does it keep both of them fresher, it's harder on the defense since they are getting more tired in the second half and the running back has fresh legs. The concept of one back being your workhouse for the entire game has been proven outdated. This league is an adapt or die league.

Bucket · 09-19-2011, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallin21

Am I the only one that thinks Hightower is slightly overrated as a runner? It took Hightower 20 carries to get to 96 yds, while Helu had 10 carries for 74 yds. The only knock on Helu is that he's not a good pass blocker.

Also, I'm not buying Shanahan's comment that Hightower was "tired". TH didn't play at all in the 2nd half, but for a couple of plays. I think Shanahan's seeing that Helu, with the exception of Pass Pro, is a more productive running and pass catching back than Hightower is.

Not really. I think he does a good job on finding holes and falling forward for yards. You need a bruiser and a scat back to have a great offense, and we now have both.

You kinda pound them with Hightower, and then when the defense is tired.. Let Helu run around them. It's a big difference when you are out there attacking the same guy all day, and then a quicker/faster guy comes out and you feel like you have cement shoes.

I'm speaking from experience though.

Ruhskins · 09-19-2011, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallin21

Am I the only one that thinks Hightower is slightly overrated as a runner? It took Hightower 20 carries to get to 96 yds, while Helu had 10 carries for 74 yds. The only knock on Helu is that he's not a good pass blocker.

Also, I'm not buying Shanahan's comment that Hightower was "tired". TH didn't play at all in the 2nd half, but for a couple of plays. I think Shanahan's seeing that Helu, with the exception of Pass Pro, is a more productive running and pass catching back than Hightower is.

I think TH may be a bit overrated...but I think the Cards were a bit too focused on him during the game (esp the likes of Darnell Dockett). On the Davis TD, I think the Cards were too sure of themselves that TH was going to run it. In the 2nd half, I think Shanahan went with the more productive RB, but also I think he wanted to go with the RB that didn't have the target on his back as well.

I like the way MS used two RBs this week and that's the way it should be. I think this should be an offense where it doesn't matter who is the #1 RB, because both should play.

12thMan · 09-19-2011, 01:34 AM

Who would have thought we wouldn't be missing either Clinton Portis or Ryan Torain going into the third game of the season.

GTripp0012 · 09-19-2011, 02:26 AM

Here's the difference between Helu and Torain on a screen pass with identical blocking: there are defensive lineman in pursuit who will catch Torain after 14-16 yards. With Helu, good luck big guys. He's not slowing down to make his cuts, so chase him all you want, he's going to be running away from you,

Breakaway speed is so novel in this offense.

GTripp0012 · 09-19-2011, 03:28 AM

Man coverage was really working for us in the first half, but we went away from it in the second half because of the injuries. That created lanes on the draw, and a number of quickly defined throws for Kolb who beat the pressure a number of times. There was also far less blitzing in the second half than the first, after the Cardinals showed a credible threat of a run.

hooskins · 09-19-2011, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

CC isn't going anywhere. No sense in even discussing it.

But this is a lesson on GMing greatest....

Lotus · 09-19-2011, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallin21

Am I the only one that thinks Hightower is slightly overrated as a runner? It took Hightower 20 carries to get to 96 yds, while Helu had 10 carries for 74 yds. The only knock on Helu is that he's not a good pass blocker.

Also, I'm not buying Shanahan's comment that Hightower was "tired". TH didn't play at all in the 2nd half, but for a couple of plays. I think Shanahan's seeing that Helu, with the exception of Pass Pro, is a more productive running and pass catching back than Hightower is.

No, you are not the only one. I am glad that we have Hightower and he is a good banger as a runner. Plus you need multiple backs in the NFL. But he is good only, not great. I hope we see more of Helu as time goes by.

Mattyk · 09-19-2011, 07:43 AM

Helu is a nice change of pace, but TH is still a baller too. They're a nice duo.

Mattyk · 09-19-2011, 08:18 AM

How about that 4th and 3 call at the 18 when Rex hit Moss for the TD? Love the balls of that play call and the decision by Rex. That's why I can't fault us for not running the clock down at the end. I think the coaches have sent a clear message, we're going down swinging no matter what.

Mattyk · 09-19-2011, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Here's the difference between Helu and Torain on a screen pass with identical blocking: there are defensive lineman in pursuit who will catch Torain after 14-16 yards. With Helu, good luck big guys. He's not slowing down to make his cuts, so chase him all you want, he's going to be running away from you,

Breakaway speed is so novel in this offense.

Helu is pretty amazing with how he can plant his foot and cut and not loose any speed. It's only a matter of time before breaks off some really big plays.

FRPLG · 09-19-2011, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Man coverage was really working for us in the first half, but we went away from it in the second half because of the injuries. That created lanes on the draw, and a number of quickly defined throws for Kolb who beat the pressure a number of times. There was also far less blitzing in the second half than the first, after the Cardinals showed a credible threat of a run.

Yeah Tim Ryan was killing me with his whole "Arizona has made great adjustments". If you by adjustments you mean our entire secondary is backups and we can't actually run much more than base right now then yeah Arz made good adjustments. Otherwise what really happened was we had a bunch of special teamers playing in the secondary against maybe the best WR in the league and a half decent QB. We understandably had some trouble with that.

FRPLG · 09-19-2011, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

How about that 4th and 3 call at the 18 when Rex hit Moss for the TD? Love the balls of that play call and the decision by Rex. That's why I can't fault us for not running the clock down at the end. I think the coaches have sent a clear message, we're going down swinging no matter what.

Great read by Rex. The play was meant to go to the flat for a first down but Rex recognized that Moss was singled and the CB peaked too hard. The safety had zero chance. Arizona has some major issues on defense.

09-19-2011, 01:00 AM	#46
vallin21 The Starter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Vienna Va Posts: 1,025	Re: Scud's Studs (12th off the bench): Cards vs. Skins Am I the only one that thinks Hightower is slightly overrated as a runner? It took Hightower 20 carries to get to 96 yds, while Helu had 10 carries for 74 yds. The only knock on Helu is that he's not a good pass blocker. Also, I'm not buying Shanahan's comment that Hightower was "tired". TH didn't play at all in the 2nd half, but for a couple of plays. I think Shanahan's seeing that Helu, with the exception of Pass Pro, is a more productive running and pass catching back than Hightower is.

09-19-2011, 01:08 AM	#47
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,363	Re: Scud's Studs (12th off the bench): Cards vs. Skins We don't know what Helu is like starting the game and getting the bulk of the carries. While Helu is a good change of pace back, Hightower is the pacesetter, if you will. He gets the offense in a rhythm, which helps Rex out a lot. Not to suggest that Helu isn't starting material, but I think for now the combination is right.

09-19-2011, 01:34 AM	#51
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,363	Re: Scud's Studs (12th off the bench): Cards vs. Skins Who would have thought we wouldn't be missing either Clinton Portis or Ryan Torain going into the third game of the season.

09-19-2011, 02:26 AM	#52
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 25 Posts: 15,143	Re: Scud's Studs (12th off the bench): Cards vs. Skins Here's the difference between Helu and Torain on a screen pass with identical blocking: there are defensive lineman in pursuit who will catch Torain after 14-16 yards. With Helu, good luck big guys. He's not slowing down to make his cuts, so chase him all you want, he's going to be running away from you, Breakaway speed is so novel in this offense. __________________ Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

09-19-2011, 03:28 AM	#53
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 25 Posts: 15,143	Re: Scud's Studs (12th off the bench): Cards vs. Skins Man coverage was really working for us in the first half, but we went away from it in the second half because of the injuries. That created lanes on the draw, and a number of quickly defined throws for Kolb who beat the pressure a number of times. There was also far less blitzing in the second half than the first, after the Cardinals showed a credible threat of a run. __________________ Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

09-19-2011, 07:43 AM	#56
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,751	Re: Scud's Studs (12th off the bench): Cards vs. Skins Helu is a nice change of pace, but TH is still a baller too. They're a nice duo. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

09-19-2011, 08:18 AM	#57
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,751	Re: Scud's Studs (12th off the bench): Cards vs. Skins How about that 4th and 3 call at the 18 when Rex hit Moss for the TD? Love the balls of that play call and the decision by Rex. That's why I can't fault us for not running the clock down at the end. I think the coaches have sent a clear message, we're going down swinging no matter what. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

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Scud's Studs (12th off the bench): Cards vs. Skins

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