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A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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Old 09-27-2011, 06:27 PM   #16
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

I think its a big mistake to let Torain sit. I predict when we do finally see him, if we do, we will wish we had been using him more. I hope the only reason they are holding him back is to be sure he's 100%
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:47 PM   #17
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

Kyle simply isn't committed to the running game. I don't have a problem with it if we had better wr's, QB and O-line. But we don't have the personel to be a pass first team. He's gotta realize his personel better and call more run plays.
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:54 PM   #18
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

Well when your team is a run first or has a really good run game what do you think the opponent is going to try and take away? The run. If we were a really good passing team what would opponents try to take away? The pass. MS has always been a run first HC. KS I believe was a pass first OC in Houston and now here. As others have said the team has gotten better with it's ratio of run/pass but as you see Dallas chose to try and stop the run and force Grossman to pass with the hopes of taking the ball away. They did a good job of game planning. The Skins should have made better adjustments seeing the Cowboys stacking the line. Perhaps more screens which got the ball beyond the DL and seemed to work when used late in the game. I'll say again I don't recall seeing any slantsto anyone Moss, Cooley, Davis, or Hightower. The plan was either run or pick a 15 to 20 yrs pass play. What happened to dink and dunk it that's all they will give you?
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:05 PM   #19
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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They did a good job of game planning. The Skins should have made better adjustments seeing the Cowboys stacking the line.
Even if the Cowboys were selling out to stop the run (i don't think they were) it doesn't mean you stop running.

Maybe I'll download the game and post some screen caps but some of those runs were very close to breaking for good yardage.
You can also mix up the running game to keep them off balance.
There are more runs then the outside zone stretch, we used the inside trap against the Cards and that was effective.

You cannot allow the defense to dictate what they want you to do; because it will force the offense to play left-handed.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:58 AM   #20
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

Dallas did a great job stopping the run. I just wish we had not completely abandoned it, but he did try to adapt on the fly.

I just hope we reset and go back to trying the run first in the next game. We have a potent running game which can really make Rex's job easier. When he has to carry the load, that's when "Bad Rex" comes out...like that fumble at the end.

The running game looked great in Weeks 1 and 2, and Rex made fewer errors. As long as he's under center, we need to try to be a run-first team to set up the play-action for Rex, which he excels at.

Have to credit the Dallas D on stopping the run. That was the key to the win for them. (along with Rocca's blunder on the FG)
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:09 PM   #21
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
Kyle simply isn't committed to the running game. I don't have a problem with it if we had better wr's, QB and O-line. But we don't have the personel to be a pass first team. He's gotta realize his personel better and call more run plays.
??

Hightower is 4th in the NFL in rushing attempts.

As a team we're 8th overall.

I think that means we're trying to run the ball.
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:13 PM   #22
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

We're definitely trying. We tried to run against Dallas.

As long as we come out and see if the running game can get going against that game's opponent, we'll have success. Some weeks, it just doesn't work.
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:27 PM   #23
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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We're definitely trying. We tried to run against Dallas.

As long as we come out and see if the running game can get going against that game's opponent, we'll have success. Some weeks, it just doesn't work.
3rd QTR:Washington Redskins at 9:31

1-10-WAS 24 (9:31) T.Hightower left guard to WAS 26 for 2 yards (D.Ware, S.Lee).

2-8-WAS 26 (8:56) R.Grossman pass short middle to S.Moss ran ob at DAL 38 for 36 yards. Pass complete on a "skinny post." P10 [Play action]

1-10-DAL 38 (8:19) R.Grossman pass short left to C.Cooley to DAL 26 for 12 yards (M.Jenkins). Pass complete in the flat. P11 [From I-Form run set]

1-10-DAL 26 (7:43) T.Hightower left end to DAL 25 for 1 yard (S.Lee, J.Ratliff).

2-9-DAL 25 (7:00) T.Hightower right end to DAL 19 for 6 yards (A.Elam).

3-3-DAL 19 P12 (6:15) (Shotgun) R.Grossman pass short middle to T.Hightower to DAL 12 for 7 yards (S.Lee). Pass complete on a
crossing pattern out of the backfield.

1-10-DAL 12 (5:34) T.Hightower right tackle to DAL 6 for 6 yards (G.Sensabaugh).

2-4-DAL 6 (4:52) T.Hightower left end to DAL 1 for 5 yards (A.Spencer). R13

1-1-DAL 1 (4:05) R.Grossman pass short left to T.Hightower for 1 yard,
TOUCHDOWN. Pass complete off play action. P14

G.Gano extra point is GOOD, Center-N.Sundberg, Holder-S.Rocca.
WAS 16 DAL 9, 9 plays, 76 yards, 5:31 drive, 11:00 elapsed

Next drive:

Washington Redskins at 0:19, (1st play from scrimmage 0:14)
1-10-WAS 25 (:14) R.Grossman pass incomplete short right. Pass was thrown out of bounds right sideline.

2-10-WAS 25 (:06) R.Grossman pass incomplete deep left to S.Moss (M.Jenkins). Pass knocked away at the Dallas 37.

3-10-WAS 25 (15:00) (Shotgun) R.Grossman pass incomplete short right to T.Austin (T.Newman). Pass incomplete sideline at the
Washington 35.

4-10-WAS 25 (14:46) (Punt formation) S.Rocca punts 37 yards to DAL 38, Center-N.Sundberg, fair catch by D.Harris

Following Drive:

Washington Redskins at 13:03
1-10-WAS 10 (13:03) R.Grossman pass short left to J.Gaffney to WAS 25 for 15 yards (G.Sensabaugh). P15

1-10-WAS 25 (12:28) R.Helu left tackle to WAS 28 for 3 yards (S.Lissemore; K.Coleman).

2-7-WAS 28 (11:47) R.Grossman pass incomplete short right to C.Cooley. Pass incomplete right sideline.

3-7-WAS 28 (11:42) (Shotgun) R.Grossman pass incomplete deep left to T.Austin.

(11:35) (Punt formation) S.Rocca punts 54 yards to DAL 18, Center-N.Sundberg. D.Harris to DAL 19 for 1 yard
(B.Westbrook).

More unproductive passing follows
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:24 PM   #24
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

Did the Redskins abandon the run?

By Rich Tandler

As the second half unfolded yesterday, there was a lot of chatter about the Redskins abandoning the run, especially after they took a seven-point lead in the third quarter.

In what could become a weekly feature as second-half running was a topic of discussion after last weekís win over Arizona as well, letís take a look at the Redskins run-pass play selections and see if complaints that they failed to run the ball enough hold water. (Statistics include sacks)

For the game:

62 plays

22 runs for 65 yards, 3.0 yards per carry

40 passes for 233 yards, 5.8 yards per pass play

That is a ratio of 65 percent passes and 35 percent runs, which is about the ratio they ran for the 2010 season. Earlier this week, Kyle Shanahan said that one of the things they wanted to do this year was to run the ball more. For this game, they did not and considering that they trailed in the game for a total of about four minutes that seems to be a bit pass happy.

It also should be noted that they came in averaging 71 plays per game so they ran about nine fewer plays. They also came into the game leading the NFL in time of possession but they held the ball for just 28:24 to 31:36 for Dallas.

First half

35 plays

15 runs for 41 yards, 2.7 yards per carry

20 passes for 121 yards, 6.0 yards per pass play

This is closer to the run-pass ratio that the most of the NFL runs. They had a time of possession advantage of just over 16 minutes to just under 14 minutes for Dallas.

Second half

27 plays

7 runs for 24 yards, 3.4 yards per carry

20 passes for 112 yards, 5.6 yards per pass play

It gets really out of whack here. Dallas had a substantial advantage in time of possession as they held the ball for about 18 minutes to around 12 for the Redskins. Letís look at the individual drives to see where it got that way.

Redskins get the ball at own 24 9:31 left in third quarter game tied at 9

5 runs (all Hightower) for 20 yards, 4.0 yards per carry

4 passes (all complete) for 56 yards, 14 yards per pass play

This is the touchdown drive, a nice mix of Rex Grossman passes and Tim Hightower runs. Kevin Barnesí interception gave them possession and it looked like they were going to take control of the game after the scored on Grossmanís one-yard pass to Hightower to take a 16-9 lead with 4:00 left in the third.

Redskins get ball at own 25 0:14 left in third quarter leading 16-12

3 passes, all incomplete

This is where the chatter about too many passes started. After a solid, balanced drive, the Redskins burn all of 30 seconds off of the clock and punt it away to the Cowboys.

Redskins get ball at own 10 13:03 left still leading 16-12

1 run (Helu) 3 yards

3 passes (1 complete) 15 yards

The Redskins do get out of a hole at their own 10 with a 15-yard first-down pass from Grossman to Jabar Gaffney. But from the 25 itís Helu for three yards (whereís Hightower?) and then two incompletions, one shallow and one deep.

Redskins get ball at own 17 6:58 left leading 16-15

1 run (Helu) for 1 yard

5 passes (3 complete, 1 sack) for 24 yards plus a 15-yard penalty

To be fair here, the passes were working initially. A screen to Helu picked up 14 yards and then Grossman went to Chris Cooley for four yards and then to Moss for six. A 15-yard personal foul was tacked on to Mossí catch and the Redskins were at the Dallas 44 nearing field goal range. It falls apart when Helu runs for one and then Grossman is sacked for a loss of eight. The third and 17 pass has no chance and the Redskins punt.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:24 PM   #25
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

It's not good enough to just run the ball to eat up clock, you have to run it successfully. If you run the ball three straight times, you've eaten two minutes, which is really not a lot. If you throw the ball 7 straight plays getting two first downs before a punt, you're going to eat up more than two minutes even with 2-3 incompletions mixed in. You have to move the chains to eat time.

With that said, if Hightower can't be trusted to grind out a win in the fourth quarter, Helu needs to be the guy. I realize Hightower is a much better pass protected at this point in his career, but if we have to throw while ahead because that's all our personnel will allow for, we need to change the personnel so that we can run.

Even Torain, for all his faults with his vision, would have provided the confidence necessary to run to win at the end of a close ballgame. Though I think Helu gives us the much better chance.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:16 PM   #26
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

Personally I would have run the hell out of Helu in the second half. The defense gets a little tired and with his speed and elusiveness he can take it to the house at any given time. And let's remember....this guy had zero fumbles in college.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:40 PM   #27
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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It's not good enough to just run the ball to eat up clock, you have to run it successfully. If you run the ball three straight times, you've eaten two minutes, which is really not a lot. If you throw the ball 7 straight plays getting two first downs before a punt, you're going to eat up more than two minutes even with 2-3 incompletions mixed in. You have to move the chains to eat time.
I'm not sure what point you are arguing here but I'm not talking about running out the clock.

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With that said, if Hightower can't be trusted to grind out a win in the fourth quarter, Helu needs to be the guy. I realize Hightower is a much better pass protected at this point in his career, but if we have to throw while ahead because that's all our personnel will allow for, we need to change the personnel so that we can run.
Not trusting HT was a mistake imo.
You dance with the girl who brung you and Hightower + playaction lead to the only TD drive.

I think our personnel, specifically Rex, dictates that we should be a run/play action team.
Not a pass first team.

The scheme is solid and we have 2 backs that fit our run scheme very well, both have the ability to be effective frontside runner and both have the ability to cutback.

Quote:
Even Torain, for all his faults with his vision, would have provided the confidence necessary to run to win at the end of a close ballgame. Though I think Helu gives us the much better chance.
Why would a lesser back provide the confidence to run but not the back that we traded for who ended up winning the starting job? Why would the 3rd string back provide the confidence to close out a game and not the 1st string RB who legs were the cog behind the only TD scoring drive?
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:29 PM   #28
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

Two years ago, HT caught 63 balls (3rd on the team) in an offense with Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston.

Why we aren't throwing more screens to this guy I do not understand. Call it a pass all you like, but for all intents and purposes it's a running play.

Hightower has a terrible 3.5ypc right now but an 8.2y/rec average and is leading all NFC East RB's in receiving first downs.

Meanwhile Helu has a gaudy 5.7ypc.

I'd probably rather see Helu running inside, but both of these guys could be catching more balls out of the backfield. Did you see Hightower hurdle that tackler at the end of the game? That's what I'm talking about.
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Old 09-29-2011, 04:51 AM   #29
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

It seemed to me that the running backs slipped every time they tried to cut. They were so frustrated in the first half because they kept on falling before being tackled. Why couldn't they have changed cleats?
It might have changed their game plan.
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:29 PM   #30
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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It seemed to me that the running backs slipped every time they tried to cut. They were so frustrated in the first half because they kept on falling before being tackled. Why couldn't they have changed cleats?
It might have changed their game plan.

Yeah, this is a really good point. Steinberg made a joke about it, but people were slipping all over the luxurious new field of the JerrahDome. And by people, I mean "mostly us". Does seem strange that we didn't make any equipment adjustments.
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