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A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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Old 10-03-2011, 09:04 AM   #31
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

The NFL is now a passing league. Teams used to run to set up the pass, now they pass to set up a run. Even the salary structure shows the NFL is a pass first league as the highest paid positions have to do with passing or stopping the pass. Only kickers & punters are paid less than RBs.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:10 AM   #32
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

Over the past few weeks, I think the importance of the running game for this offense has made itself obvious.
Put the game in Rex's hands early 2 picks, but the defense stood up.
Then the combo of Helu+Royster drives the victory.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:57 AM   #33
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44ever View Post
I TOLD YOU SO...

Torain rushed for 135 yards on 19 carries and scored on a 20-yard run in the second quarter to help the Redskins to a 17-10 win. Washington improved to 3-1 heading into the bye week. Torain, who had seen little action over the first three games, played a key role.
Ryan Torain makes most of opportunity as Redskins' feature back - Washington Times


You aren't barking so loud now are you? Torain is garbage.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:53 PM   #34
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
You aren't barking so loud now are you? Torain is garbage.
And folks thought that we didn't need to draft Royster or Helu because the barely useful Keiland Williams and the horrid-against-quality-competition Torain were satisfactory.
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:18 PM   #35
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

I like Torain for what he is, an avg. nfl backup that can run hard & break tackles in the secondary. Never thought he found holes well, as GTripp always has said, he lost yards on a lot of runs due to poor reads. I could easily see he, Royster & Hightower not making it next year due to health & draft picks. At least RB is not one of our major personel concerns this offseason.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:11 PM   #36
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

Run first, pass first, who cares? If we have personnel that suports a passing game, then we should emphasize that. A pass first offense hasn't hurt New Orleans and Green Bay much, has it?
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:49 PM   #37
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

The key with those two franchises is 2 franchise gold standard QBs.
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:24 PM   #38
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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Originally Posted by Paintrain View Post
Run first, pass first, who cares? If we have personnel that suports a passing game, then we should emphasize that. A pass first offense hasn't hurt New Orleans and Green Bay much, has it?
IF we were winning or even if the offense was merely productive I don't think anyone would care if we were run first or pass first because either style of offense can win.

As you suggest with Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers clearly the QB is the central figure in executing a pass first offense.
One really needs to look no further then Rex to decide whether or not we had the personnel to support that style of offense.

Imo and if you look at the numbers Kyle has been a pass first coordinator.
And like many other pass first OC's his reliance on the pass was often counter productive.

Robert Griffin and the new WRs go a long way towards assembling the personnel to actually support a pass first offense.
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:41 AM   #39
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
IF we were winning or even if the offense was merely productive I don't think anyone would care if we were run first or pass first because either style of offense can win.

As you suggest with Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers clearly the QB is the central figure in executing a pass first offense.
One really needs to look no further then Rex to decide whether or not we had the personnel to support that style of offense.

Imo and if you look at the numbers Kyle has been a pass first coordinator.
And like many other pass first OC's his reliance on the pass was often counter productive.

Robert Griffin and the new WRs go a long way towards assembling the personnel to actually support a pass first offense.
The 2 first rounders and the second that we gave up don't.
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:45 AM   #40
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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The 2 first rounders and the second that we gave up don't.
Proper cost-benefit analysis involves weighing the net benefits RGIII/Luck provides vs. what the net benefits the other picks provide.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:14 AM   #41
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

i was looking forward to reading this thread for a long time. thank you
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:36 PM   #42
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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No commitment to the running game

The Redskins may have lost Tim Hightower to injured reserve but the complete lack of commitment they have shown to the running game that was the foundation for their fast start to the season is somewhat shocking. Hightower certainly started the season well but he was not alone in that regard, with Roy Helu (-0.2) and Ryan Torain also playing very well. In the last two weeks, with Hightower on the shelf and trying to bed in a new quarterback, the Redskins have only called 20 designed runs. Neither game has been a runaway victory for the opposition, though the Bills and 49ers rarely looked troubled. Much as the Redskins individual performances are falling off all over the team the complete unwillingness of Mike and Kyle Shanahan to lean on the running game is either baffling or inexcusable depending upon your persuasion. Helu made his intentions clear with a strong run on the first play from scrimmage in the game but was only given the ball on the ground nine more times after that.
Re-Focused - 49ers @ Redskins, Week 9 | ProFootballFocus.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Graziano
A couple of interesting facts in this Redskins.com notebook, including the fact that Washington Redskins running back Roy Helu's rushing touchdown Sunday was the first against the Seahawks since the second quarter in Week 4. Helu had a remarkable day and was probably the main reason the Redskins snapped their six-game losing streak. The rookie had 23 carries and the Redskins ran the ball on 29 of their 65 plays.

Here's why that last bit matters: It means they ran on 44.6 percent of their offensive plays, which is their second-highest such figure of the season. Only the Week 4 victory in St. Louis, in which they ran on 40 of their 69 plays (58.0 percent) ranks higher. Sunday was also the fourth game of this season in which at least 40 percent of Washington's offensive plays were run plays. You want to take a guess what the 4-7 Redskins' record is in those games?

Yeah, it's 4-0.


Which means they're 0-7 when they don't run it at least 40 percent of the time. I did that little bit of higher math right there so you didn't have to. I'm looking out for you guys. I'm helpful like that.

Point is, the Redskins' offense only works when it's able to commit to the run. Even as Helu was getting 2 and 3 yards a carry in the early going, they stuck with the run Sunday. Even against one of the stingiest run defenses in the league, the Redskins kept running the ball in the hopes that it would pay off, and when Helu jumped over that dude and ran 28 yards for a touchdown, it had.

During their six-game losing streak, only 29.7 percent of the Redskins' offensive plays were run plays. There were three games -- Eagles, Bills and 49ers -- in which they failed to run the ball at least 30 percent of the time. The bottoming-out came (no surprise) in Week 8, when quarterback John Beck took 10 sacks and the Redskins got shut out. They ran on just 11 of their 54 plays that game -- 20.4 percent.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post...d-the-run-game
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Last edited by 30gut; 03-18-2012 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:35 PM   #43
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

It's going to change almost every game. Teams will crowd the LOS to stop the run then we will start with the pass first. Teams that decide to sit back and stop the pass will open up the run for us.

One opens up the other.
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:21 PM   #44
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

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It's going to change almost every game. Teams will crowd the LOS to stop the run then we will start with the pass first. Teams that decide to sit back and stop the pass will open up the run for us.

One opens up the other.
I'm not sure if you're responding to my post.
Its tough to tell because you didn't quote, so if you're not responding to my post then disregard this post.
But, I'm pointing out very specific instances that clearly show and abandonment of the run.

But, generally speaking I agree with your post above.
But, lets say that the idea in your post is completely true.
You would be running an offense that allows the defense to dictate how you run your offense.
And imo that's not how good offenses with a true identity execute their offense.

Kyle has proven to be a pass first OC and there's nothing wrong with that.
Kyle has faith in his passing offense and with good reason.
Kyle has lead one of the top passing offenses in the league in Houston.
And despite the lack of talent at QB, OL and WR Kyle's passing offense's here have been better then its individual pieces enough to produce a middle of the pack passing offense.
Even though Kyle forgets about the run at times; most games Kyle does a good job of using the scheme/playcalling to get receivers opens.

Imo the focus during this offseason speaks to Kyle's philosophy as an OC.
We put ourselves in position to draft RGIII and added Garcon and Morgan to lead the WR corps.
If Kyle wants to win with the passing game then imo he's making the right moves to create a dynamic passing offense.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:30 PM   #45
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Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament

-2008
When Kyle was splitting playcalling duties with Kubiak the Texans had a respectable rushing attack the split was about 55/45 pass/run.

-2009 With full reign over the playcalling
Kyle sat at about 58/42 pass/run.

2010-
Kyle was 63/37 pass/run.
For comparison purposes, Kubiak's Texans remained at 58/42 despite having a dramatically improved rushing attack.

2011-
Kyle's ratio again: 60/40 pass/run
591 passing attempts (top 5 in the NFL more then every team except Detroit, New Orleans, New England and Atlanta)
300 rushing attempts (bottom 10 in the NFL ahead of only Green Bay, Buffalo, Arizona, Indy, Tennessee, Detroit and Tampa)

Texans 46 pass/53.8 run

Reconcilement of the Shanahan's offenses through the numbers and outcomes

Mike's pass/run ratio for his career is: 51.8% run vs 48.16% pass.
And actually that number is skewed because it wrongly includes the 2008 season where Jeremy Bates was the playcaller.
That season marked a clear depature from Mike's normal pass/run ratio with a 61.57% pass rate which was 4.12 percentage points higher then Mike's highest pass heavy season.


Kyle's 3 years, 2 here and w/ 1 with Houston, are right around 60/40
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Last edited by 30gut; 03-28-2012 at 03:32 PM.
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