Hall of Fame Class of 2012

Mattyk · 09-29-2011, 08:49 AM

I think the Skins are done for a while when it comes to the Hall. I honestly don't see anyone on the list that's realistically going to make the final cut.

KI Skins Fan · 09-29-2011, 09:26 AM

The OL candidates are very strong. I would have no issue with many of those players being elected to the HOF.

Joe Jacoby is one of my all-time favorite players. His battles with Lawrence Taylor were epic and he was a devastating run blocker. I think he'll be elected some day.

Jim Lachey was an outstanding LT. He was "money" as a pass protector. His acqusition to play LT allowed Big Jake to move to RT late in his career and solidified one of the best pass-blocking OL's of all-time. That was a key to our great Super Bowl winning season in 1991.

NC_Skins · 09-29-2011, 09:42 AM

Terrell Davis isn't making the Hall of Fame. Ever. He simply doesn't have the stats to back his induction. He's had 4 stellar years and the rest have been injury marred.

sportscurmudgeon · 09-30-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

The preliminary list is out and there are obviously many skins on it. Will be interesting to watch them narrow it down:
I bolded the guys that are known as Redskins and I don't think I missed any. I obviously skipped guys like Larry Centers and Andre Reed since they were not in DC long.

Enshrinement » Modern-Era Nominees for the Class of 2012

Class of 2012 Modern Era Preliminary Nominees:

Quarterbacks
DREW BLEDSOE, Phil Simms

Running Backs
TIKI BARBER, Jerome Bettis, Larry Centers, Roger Craig, STEPHEN DAVIS, Terrell Davis, Eddie George, Curtis Martin, Brian Mitchell (also KR/PR), Gerald Riggs, Herschel Walker, Ricky Watters

Wide Receivers
Tim Brown (also KR), Cris Carter, Gary Clark, Mark Clayton, Henry Ellard (also PR), KEYSHAWN JOHNSON, Andre Reed, Sterling Sharpe, Jimmy Smith, ROD SMITH

Tight Ends
Todd Christensen, Frank Wycheck

Offensive Linemen
Tony Boselli (T), Lomas Brown (T), Jim Covert (T), Dermontti Dawson (C), Joe Fields (C), Jay Hilgenberg (C), Chris Hinton (G/T), Kent Hull (C), Joe Jacoby (T), Mike Kenn (T), Jim Lachey (T), Willie Roaf (T), WILL SHIELDS (G), Steve Wisniewski (G)

Defensive Linemen
Dave Butz (DE/DT), Chris Doleman (DE/LB), Carl Hairston (DE/DT), Charles Haley (DE/LB), Ed “Too Tall” Jones (DE), Cortez Kennedy (DT), Joe Klecko (DE/DT/NT), Dexter Manley (DE), Charles Mann (DE), Fred Smerlas (NT)

Linebackers
Cornelius Bennett, Kevin Greene (also DE), Ken Harvey, Clay Matthews, Karl Mecklenburg, Sam Mills

Defensive Backs
Eric Allen (CB), Steve Atwater (S), Joey Browner (S), LeRoy Butler (S), Kenny Easley (S), Albert Lewis (CB), Donnie Shell (S), TROY VINCENT(CB), Aeneas Williams (CB/S), Darren Woodson (S)

Kickers/Punters
Gary Anderson (K), Nick Lowery (K), Reggie Roby (P), MIKE VANDERJAGT (K)

Special Teams
Steve Tasker (ST/WR)

Coaches
Bill Arnsparger, Bud Carson, Don Coryell, BILL COWHER, Tom Flores, Jimmy Johnson, Chuck Knox, Chuck Mather, BILL PARCELLS, Buddy Parker, Dan Reeves, MARTY SCHOTTENHEIMER, Clark Shaughnessy, Dick Vermeil

Contributors
K.S. “Bud” Adams, Jr. (Owner), Bobby Beathard (Admin.), Gil Brandt (Admin.), Leo Carlin (Admin.), Jack Kent Cooke (Owner), Otho Davis (Trainer), Ed DeBartolo, Jr. (Owner), Ron Gibbs (Official), Jim Kensil (Admin.), Eddie Kotal (Admin.), Art McNally (Official), Art Modell (Owner), Steve Sabol (NFL Films), Paul Tagliabue (Commissioner), Burl Toler, Sr. (Official), Jim Tunney (Official), Ron Wolf (Admin.), George Young (Admin.)

Italics denotes finalists for the Class of 2011

CAPS denotes first-year eligibles

If I had a vote - - and I do not:

No QBs from this list.

Terrell Davis and Curtis Martin are the 2 best RBs

Andre Reed and Sterling Sharpe are the 2 best WRs

No TEs from this list.

Willie Roaf and Will Shields are the 2 best OL

Dave Butz and Charles Haley are the 2 best DL

Clay Matthews and Karl Mecklenburg are the 2 best LBs

Steve Atwater, Kenny Easley and Aeneas Williams are the 3 best DBs

No kickers/punters/special teamers from this list.

Cowher, Parcells, Schottenheimer and Vermeil are the best coaches on the list.

Steve Sabol and Jim Tunney are the best of the contributors on the list.

Over and out...

Leader In Sports · 09-30-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

If I had a vote - - and I do not:

No QBs from this list.

Terrell Davis and Curtis Martin are the 2 best RBs

Andre Reed and Sterling Sharpe are the 2 best WRs

No TEs from this list.

Willie Roaf and Will Shields are the 2 best OL

Dave Butz and Charles Haley are the 2 best DL

Clay Matthews and Karl Mecklenburg are the 2 best LBs

Steve Atwater, Kenny Easley and Aeneas Williams are the 3 best DBs

No kickers/punters/special teamers from this list.

Cowher, Parcells, Schottenheimer and Vermeil are the best coaches on the list.

Steve Sabol and Jim Tunney are the best of the contributors on the list.

Over and out...

Sterling Sharpe will not be in the HOF. I think Shannon's speech probably hurt him, but he didn't play long enough compared to so many others that he wouldn't make it anyway. Reed will be in at some point - just who knows when.

SmootSmack · 09-30-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

Sterling Sharpe will not be in the HOF. I think Shannon's speech probably hurt him, but he didn't play long enough compared to so many others that he wouldn't make it anyway. Reed will be in at some point - just who knows when.

How did his Shannon's speech hurt him?

Leader In Sports · 09-30-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How did his Shannon's speech hurt him?

From everything I hear, there are MANY players who have campaigns to get into Canton. At this point, the voters are so sick of it, there is a back lash against it.

Not that I know this for fact, but I have been told this from multiple sources.

Then of course, you look at Sterling's record compared to Brown, Carter etc and he just didn't have the longevity at that position to justify a gold jacket.

Mattyk · 09-30-2011, 03:35 PM

I'm kinda torn on the longevity argument. What's the average career, 2-3 years? Just because a guy doesn't play 10+ years shouldn't hold him back from consideration. If a guy's career falls short due to injury, but during his time in the league he was one of the top players, I think voters should give guys like that a closer look.

Sterling Sharpe was a hell of a WR, had he played another 3-4 seasons he would probably be a lock. Davis would also be a lock if he had played a few more seasons. I just think it's a shame some of these guys get discounted because their careers were cut short due to career ending injuries.

Leader In Sports · 09-30-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I'm kinda torn on the longevity argument. What's the average career, 2-3 years? Just because a guy doesn't play 10+ years shouldn't hold him back from consideration. If a guy's career falls short due to injury, but during his time in the league he was one of the top players, I think voters should give guys like that a closer look.

Sterling Sharpe was a hell of a WR, had he played another 3-4 seasons he would probably be a lock. Davis would also be a lock if he had played a few more seasons. I just think it's a shame some of these guys get discounted because their careers were cut short due to career ending injuries.

I agree to a point. We are projecting what they COULD have done had they played a full career. There are lots of guys who are close to being in the Hall of Fame if they had just played for a different team, a different system, had a teammate who could have relieved pressure from them etc, etc.

In the end you have to look at what the career actually was. Remember, there are more HOF quality players than there are slots. I was really disappointed not to see Maxie Baughan as a senior nominee this year. He is another 9 Time Pro Bowl linebacker who should be a lock. You see guys like that, it takes away from the guys that had short careers.

budw38 · 09-30-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

If I had a vote - - and I do not:

No QBs from this list.

Terrell Davis and Curtis Martin are the 2 best RBs

Andre Reed and Sterling Sharpe are the 2 best WRs

No TEs from this list.

Willie Roaf and Will Shields are the 2 best OL

Dave Butz and Charles Haley are the 2 best DL

Clay Matthews and Karl Mecklenburg are the 2 best LBs

Steve Atwater, Kenny Easley and Aeneas Williams are the 3 best DBs

No kickers/punters/special teamers from this list.

Cowher, Parcells, Schottenheimer and Vermeil are the best coaches on the list.

Steve Sabol and Jim Tunney are the best of the contributors on the list.

Over and out...

Very nice work on your list . Would love to see Jacoby get in soon , went up against some HOF's every year LT , R. White and future HOF , Haley . Not to mention Too Tall , Harvey Martin and D Martin . Manley will be an intersesting subject as time goes by .

Mattyk · 09-30-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

I agree to a point. We are projecting what they COULD have done had they played a full career. There are lots of guys who are close to being in the Hall of Fame if they had just played for a different team, a different system, had a teammate who could have relieved pressure from them etc, etc.

In the end you have to look at what the career actually was. Remember, there are more HOF quality players than there are slots. I was really disappointed not to see Maxie Baughan as a senior nominee this year. He is another 9 Time Pro Bowl linebacker who should be a lock. You see guys like that, it takes away from the guys that had short careers.

Speaking of short careers I wonder if Sayers would get in today with the more fickle criteria the voters seem to have now.

Leader In Sports · 09-30-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Speaking of short careers I wonder if Sayers would get in today with the more fickle criteria the voters seem to have now.

I was thinking of Sayers as I wrote that. Not only agreeing with your point, but the pool of players is SO much larger than when Sayers was elected. Every year a current era player has to wait, he only has 3-5 guys drop out of the competition (by being inducted) and has how many guys who are first year eligible?

Same issue for the Senior nominees. Only 2 of them get in a year max and there are so many eligible. Take my example of Maxie Baughan.

Maxie Baughan NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

His rookie year he won the NFL Championship with the Eagles (1960) so that checks off the championship list. He made the pro bowl all but 1 year in the 1960's which makes him 9 time pro bowl. He essentially did it playing for 2 teams. He only missed the pro bowl twice. The first time was his third year in the league. The other time was his final year in the league (1970).

Yes, he did sort of play in 1974. He was actually coaching college ball and George Allen convinced him to come to DC and be a player coach and back up Chris Hanburger. I am taking this year out of the equation.

In 11 years he made NINE Pro Bowls. His last year was 74. How is there not much talk about him?

Giantone · 10-01-2011, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I'm kinda torn on the longevity argument. What's the average career, 2-3 years? Just because a guy doesn't play 10+ years shouldn't hold him back from consideration..

I think it's more the whole body of work(i.e. career) being compare to others, if others are playing 7-10 years ....then you can't go on a mans work of just 2-3.Brett Farve first year was with the Falcons(on the bench) and after that Jerry Glandville trade him.Is it the player ...or the team around him?

Mattyk · 10-01-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantone

I think it's more the whole body of work(i.e. career) being compare to others, if others are playing 7-10 years ....then you can't go on a mans work of just 2-3.Brett Farve first year was with the Falcons(on the bench) and after that Jerry Glandville trade him.Is it the player ...or the team around him?

Sharpe played 7 years, shouldn't that be enough?

Leader In Sports · 10-01-2011, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Sharpe played 7 years, shouldn't that be enough?

Not at the WR position. Again, compare him to the other guys who are not in. Guys like Cris Carter, Andre Reed, Tim Brown, Marvin Harrison and what makes you say Sharpe should be in before them? It is not that someone was good or great - it is how do they stack up against others at their position.

I think 7 years is possible for someone like a running back who traditionally doesn't have the longer careers. Great receivers play 10+ years.

Positions

Modern Era: Wide Receivers (21)
Lance Alworth 1962-1972
Raymond Berry 1955-1967
Fred Biletnikoff 1965-1978
Tom Fears 1948-1956
Bob Hayes 1965-1975
Elroy (Crazylegs) Hirsch (also HB) 1946-1956
Michael Irvin 1988-1999
Charlie Joiner 1969-1986
Steve Largent 1976-1989
Dante Lavelli 1946-1956
James Lofton 1978-1993
Don Maynard 1958, 1960-1973
Tommy McDonald 1957-1968
Bobby Mitchell (also HB) 1958-1968
Art Monk 1980-1995
Pete Pihos 1947-1955
Jerry Rice 1985-2000
John Stallworth 1974-1987
Lynn Swann 1974-1982
Charley Taylor (also HB) 1964-1975, 1977
Paul Warfield 1964-1977
Only 1 of these receivers played less than 10 years and he has 4 rings and a Super Bowl MVP. Sharpe doesn't compare to this list.

09-29-2011, 08:49 AM	#16
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,673	Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2012 I think the Skins are done for a while when it comes to the Hall. I honestly don't see anyone on the list that's realistically going to make the final cut. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

09-29-2011, 09:26 AM	#17
KI Skins Fan The Starter Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: MD Eastern Shore Posts: 1,297	Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2012 The OL candidates are very strong. I would have no issue with many of those players being elected to the HOF. Joe Jacoby is one of my all-time favorite players. His battles with Lawrence Taylor were epic and he was a devastating run blocker. I think he'll be elected some day. Jim Lachey was an outstanding LT. He was "money" as a pass protector. His acqusition to play LT allowed Big Jake to move to RT late in his career and solidified one of the best pass-blocking OL's of all-time. That was a key to our great Super Bowl winning season in 1991. Last edited by KI Skins Fan; 09-29-2011 at 09:52 AM.

09-29-2011, 09:42 AM	#18
NC_Skins Franchise Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 8,269	Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2012 Terrell Davis isn't making the Hall of Fame. Ever. He simply doesn't have the stats to back his induction. He's had 4 stellar years and the rest have been injury marred. __________________ "So let me get this straight. We have the event of the year on TV with millions watching around the world... and people want a punt, pass, and kick competition to be the halftime entertainment?? Folks, don't quit your day jobs."- Matty

09-30-2011, 03:35 PM	#23
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,673	Re: Hall of Fame Class of 2012 I'm kinda torn on the longevity argument. What's the average career, 2-3 years? Just because a guy doesn't play 10+ years shouldn't hold him back from consideration. If a guy's career falls short due to injury, but during his time in the league he was one of the top players, I think voters should give guys like that a closer look. Sterling Sharpe was a hell of a WR, had he played another 3-4 seasons he would probably be a lock. Davis would also be a lock if he had played a few more seasons. I just think it's a shame some of these guys get discounted because their careers were cut short due to career ending injuries. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

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Hall of Fame Class of 2012

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