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Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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Old 10-25-2011, 12:06 PM   #121
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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What makes someone a "known commodity"? the fact he's taken a team to a SB? or the fact he throws INT's? Beck is a known commodity also... he's thrown INT's, has not stuck as the starter in his two previous teams, and has not taken anyone to a SB.

Grossman=Bad.
Beck=Just as Bad.

On top of that they both are 30 or 31. Not much difference. Expect more of the same this weekend.
known quantity =
RG has 39 career starts, on good teams and bad teams
JB has 5 career starts, on a terrible team (miami) and an unknown(us)

in 8 games with us RG is 4-4
JB doesn't even have 8 games to look at.

so, known quantity means a sample size over time and varying quality level of teams
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:10 PM   #122
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actually surprised that hasn't happened yet.
Moore is finally ready to practice and may be activated
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:30 PM   #123
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
known quantity =
RG has 39 career starts, on good teams and bad teams
JB has 5 career starts, on a terrible team (miami) and an unknown(us)

in 8 games with us RG is 4-4
JB doesn't even have 8 games to look at.

so, known quantity means a sample size over time and varying quality level of teams
thanks
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:40 PM   #124
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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What makes someone a "known commodity"? the fact he's taken a team to a SB? or the fact he throws INT's? Beck is a known commodity also... he's thrown INT's, has not stuck as the starter in his two previous teams, and has not taken anyone to a SB.

Grossman=Bad.
Beck=Just as Bad.

On top of that they both are 30 or 31. Not much difference. Expect more of the same this weekend.
Rex didn't take the Bears to the SB - the Bears took Rex in spite of himself. That year he had 23 TD's and 20 INT's that year with a 54% completion rate. On top of that he only had one 300+ yard passing game, with 6 games where he didn't even make 200 yards (he had one 24 yard passing game - yes, you read that right). Not exactly, "taking the team" anywhere.

With that said, I am not expecting much more from Beck. He has been inaccurate & made poor decisions in both games. He is more mobile, so maybe he isn't quite as bad as Sexy, but I just don't think he is much of an upgrade. There is a reason Shanny started Rex in front of him and, from what I can tell, it was purely performance based.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:53 PM   #125
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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Rex didn't take the Bears to the SB - the Bears took Rex in spite of himself. That year he had 23 TD's and 20 INT's that year with a 54% completion rate. On top of that he only had one 300+ yard passing game, with 6 games where he didn't even make 200 yards (he had one 24 yard passing game - yes, you read that right). Not exactly, "taking the team" anywhere.

With that said, I am not expecting much more from Beck. He has been inaccurate & made poor decisions in both games. He is more mobile, so maybe he isn't quite as bad as Sexy, but I just don't think he is much of an upgrade. There is a reason Shanny started Rex in front of him and, from what I can tell, it was purely performance based.
I remember watching a game during that season where I saw one of the worst QB performances ever and it was by Grossman. The defense and teams won that game all by themselves. That was the famous Dennis Green meltdown at his press conference after the game. lol.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:37 PM   #126
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
known quantity =
RG has 39 career starts, on good teams and bad teams
JB has 5 career starts, on a terrible team (miami) and an unknown(us)

in 8 games with us RG is 4-4
JB doesn't even have 8 games to look at.

so, known quantity means a sample size over time and varying quality level of teams
Somehow we are forgetting he was on the Ravens and apparently was not good enough to be starter for any of the 16 games.

See I don't have a problem with people saying Grossman had 8 games lets give Beck 8 games. Fine. and that might be simply how you feel. But the people I don't get are the Beck is better then Grossman when Beck has not even played but 1 game for us. Clearly one would need 8 games to get an honest opinion of him vs. finger pointing at one and making excuses for the other when statistically the numbers are similar.

People didn't like Grossman because he has atleast 2 turnovers a game. Beck just had a game with 2 turnovers and reasonably should have been 3. People say we know what we got in Grossman, and honestly we really don't. The coaches know what they got in Grossman and they know what they got in Beck. I'm hedging two very similar stat wise QB's talent wise with the difference being ones mobile and ones not. and I'm not saying both are the same but one is more mobile, I'm saying Becks mobility is off set by Grossmans ability to change plays or ability to know where to go with the ball. Basically all things balance out. If people said Grossman or Cam Newton I'd totally agree with you that he's by far a more talented QB over Grossman and is mobile.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:38 PM   #127
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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Moore is finally ready to practice and may be activated
ha ha... will he stay healthy. I hope he does cause the team sure could use him.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:39 PM   #128
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

Yeah. That was the Chi/Minn game where the final score was 10-2. Chicago's offense had a total of about 100 yards (This was 24 yard passing game). Minnesota had over 300 yards but couldn't score.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:42 PM   #129
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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Somehow we are forgetting he was on the Ravens and apparently was not good enough to be starter for any of the 16 games.

See I don't have a problem with people saying Grossman had 8 games lets give Beck 8 games. Fine. and that might be simply how you feel. But the people I don't get are the Beck is better then Grossman when Beck has not even played but 1 game for us. Clearly one would need 8 games to get an honest opinion of him vs. finger pointing at one and making excuses for the other when statistically the numbers are similar.

People didn't like Grossman because he has atleast 2 turnovers a game. Beck just had a game with 2 turnovers and reasonably should have been 3. People say we know what we got in Grossman, and honestly we really don't. The coaches know what they got in Grossman and they know what they got in Beck. I'm hedging two very similar stat wise QB's talent wise with the difference being ones mobile and ones not. and I'm not saying both are the same but one is more mobile, I'm saying Becks mobility is off set by Grossmans ability to change plays or ability to know where to go with the ball. Basically all things balance out. If people said Grossman or Cam Newton I'd totally agree with you that he's by far a more talented QB over Grossman and is mobile.
What? You mean a backup qb wasn't able to beat out the established starter? Crazy. He must be worthless then.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:42 PM   #130
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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Somehow we are forgetting he was on the Ravens and apparently was not good enough to be starter for any of the 16 games.

See I don't have a problem with people saying Grossman had 8 games lets give Beck 8 games. Fine. and that might be simply how you feel. But the people I don't get are the Beck is better then Grossman when Beck has not even played but 1 game for us. Clearly one would need 8 games to get an honest opinion of him vs. finger pointing at one and making excuses for the other when statistically the numbers are similar.

People didn't like Grossman because he has atleast 2 turnovers a game. Beck just had a game with 2 turnovers and reasonably should have been 3. People say we know what we got in Grossman, and honestly we really don't. The coaches know what they got in Grossman and they know what they got in Beck. I'm hedging two very similar stat wise QB's talent wise with the difference being ones mobile and ones not. and I'm not saying both are the same but one is more mobile, I'm saying Becks mobility is off set by Grossmans ability to change plays or ability to know where to go with the ball. Basically all things balance out. If people said Grossman or Cam Newton I'd totally agree with you that he's by far a more talented QB over Grossman and is mobile.
I have never understood the Ravens statement. Fact is they have Flacco, who had a stupendous first year, and his position as starter has never been seriously in jeopardy, that I know of. If you want to say they let Beck go for Dutch, well I get that, but he wasn't ever going to get a serious look over Flacco.

As for the rest, Beck will get his time, and will prove himself to be whatever he will be.
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Last edited by CRedskinsRule; 10-25-2011 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:42 PM   #131
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:47 PM   #132
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post
Somehow we are forgetting he was on the Ravens and apparently was not good enough to be starter for any of the 16 games.

See I don't have a problem with people saying Grossman had 8 games lets give Beck 8 games. Fine. and that might be simply how you feel. But the people I don't get are the Beck is better then Grossman when Beck has not even played but 1 game for us. Clearly one would need 8 games to get an honest opinion of him vs. finger pointing at one and making excuses for the other when statistically the numbers are similar.

People didn't like Grossman because he has atleast 2 turnovers a game. Beck just had a game with 2 turnovers and reasonably should have been 3. People say we know what we got in Grossman, and honestly we really don't. The coaches know what they got in Grossman and they know what they got in Beck. I'm hedging two very similar stat wise QB's talent wise with the difference being ones mobile and ones not. and I'm not saying both are the same but one is more mobile, I'm saying Becks mobility is off set by Grossmans ability to change plays or ability to know where to go with the ball. Basically all things balance out. If people said Grossman or Cam Newton I'd totally agree with you that he's by far a more talented QB over Grossman and is mobile.
Wait, who is saying Beck is "better" than Rex? I must have missed something b/c what I have been seeing is people saying - "Well, Rex played true to form and stunk it up; Maybe Beck will show he has actually learned something sitting on the bench. He is unlikely to be any worse than Rex".

Sorry a big "LOL" @ "Grossmans ability to change plays or ability to know where to go with the ball." - Sorry, when I watched Rex, I was constantly screaming "The ball goes to the guys in Burgundy - IN BURGUNDY!!!" He seemed to have difficulty grasping this at times.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:54 PM   #133
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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Rex didn't take the Bears to the SB - the Bears took Rex in spite of himself. That year he had 23 TD's and 20 INT's that year with a 54% completion rate. On top of that he only had one 300+ yard passing game, with 6 games where he didn't even make 200 yards (he had one 24 yard passing game - yes, you read that right). Not exactly, "taking the team" anywhere.

With that said, I am not expecting much more from Beck. He has been inaccurate & made poor decisions in both games. He is more mobile, so maybe he isn't quite as bad as Sexy, but I just don't think he is much of an upgrade. There is a reason Shanny started Rex in front of him and, from what I can tell, it was purely performance based.
and all of it falls on the QB. right? He had awsome WR's that "he" never got the ball to. He had awesome plays sent in by the OC that were not executed well by "him". All his WR's ran perfect routes and he simply threw the ball to the opponant. The only way you can judge him is by his stats and we don't even know if all those stats were attributed to being his fault.

But I'll back off that arguement a moment. Beck was so good the Ravens picked him up and wanted to protect him so they made him their second stringer. right? The Ravens are a good team. no excuses there as to why he wasn't starting and taking the Ravens to the SB?
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:02 PM   #134
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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and all of it falls on the QB. right? He had awsome WR's that "he" never got the ball to. He had awesome plays sent in by the OC that were not executed well by "him". All his WR's ran perfect routes and he simply threw the ball to the opponant. The only way you can judge him is by his stats and we don't even know if all those stats were attributed to being his fault.

But I'll back off that arguement a moment. Beck was so good the Ravens picked him up and wanted to protect him so they made him their second stringer. right? The Ravens are a good team. no excuses there as to why he wasn't starting and taking the Ravens to the SB?
Really? You really think it's as simple as that? You honestly think Beck should've been able to beat out their starting qb that they drafted in the first round the year before and who had played well up until that point?
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:09 PM   #135
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Re: Updated: Hightower Torn ACL/Moss Out 5-7 Weeks

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and all of it falls on the QB. right? He had awsome WR's that "he" never got the ball to. He had awesome plays sent in by the OC that were not executed well by "him". All his WR's ran perfect routes and he simply threw the ball to the opponant. The only way you can judge him is by his stats and we don't even know if all those stats were attributed to being his fault.
Are you seriously suggesting that Grossman "took" the bears to the SB?? I make no suggestions as to the competence or lack thereof of the Bears 2006 offense, I merely suggest that Grossman did not take the team to the SB, but that he (like the rest of the offense that year) was merely along for the ride. You suggested that he was a SB quarterback, I merely would point out that so was Trent Dilfer (who was replaced the very next year by his team).

As for judging from his stats - Rex's stats from that year are consistent with his historical stat line, so he may have had average teammates, but he certainly wasn't pulling a P. Manning and carrying his team. The SB was an anomoly caused by his amazing defense that year and not indicative anything more than Dilferesque ability on the part of Rex.

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But I'll back off that arguement a moment. Beck was so good the Ravens picked him up and wanted to protect him so they made him their second stringer. right? The Ravens are a good team. no excuses there as to why he wasn't starting and taking the Ravens to the SB?
Huh? Just huh? Sorry, I rely on prior retorts on this one. It's just an epic fail of an argument.

Again, maybe Beck does better, maybe not. It is unlikely he will be much worse although certainly he may do so, and, unfortunately, it is not unlikely that Beck will be just as bad as Grossman was. Let's see what he does with the keys to the car.
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Last edited by JoeRedskin; 10-25-2011 at 02:10 PM.
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