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Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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Old 10-31-2011, 02:11 PM   #151
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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Originally Posted by over the mountain View Post
chester, lich, montgomery, williams and brown seems like the best opening day line weve had in a long time.

i feel like weve done a good job revamping the O line the past 2 years. perhaps none are top tier talent but they are all seemingly solid starters imo. i guess we could use some upper end talent

i just dont feel like our O line needs that much more attention. were just really banged up right now.
They've done a good job getting new bodies but that's about it. Anyone can sign bodies. Jamal Brown is pure garbage at RT. Not sure if he's more comfortable over on the left side but he can't play RT. So the Brown experiment over on the right side hasn't panned out at all. Fail. Also Chester isn't any good either. Who's idea was it to sign him???? Fail! The right side needs an overhaul!

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Old 10-31-2011, 02:14 PM   #152
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

We ought to try and model player's return to us in dollar terms. Hicks would net us about 10 bucks for one or two more years. Only problem is, we need one thousand dollars coming from our linemen. Rookies might do worse than his 10 bucks, but they can do much better. And in the NFL, if you don't at least try to win big with your roster moves, you won't win at all.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:20 PM   #153
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

i wouldnt write off chester yet. it seems we did sign him for a few mil more than he is probably worth but i think we are much better off with him compared to the other options. i dont think the 4 or 5 yr 21 mil deal will hinder us from upgrading the team or making other personnel moves.

with brown, after trent went down the talk was about how with browns leg injury he would be alot better off on the left side because he wouldnt have to anchor on his bad leg like he does on the right side and that he sounded excited and optimistic about his play stepping up on the left side vs the right . . . then our coaching staff keep him on the right side . . i would like to see brown move over to the left just to see if there is any truth to the notion he wont have to use his bad leg as much . .who knows maybe even a mental placebo effect might happen where brown plays better on the left b/c he thinks he can play better on the left.

hes always thought and consider himself a left tackle, thats why he got traded from the saints, they wanted him to play RT and be paid like a RT, he thought otherwise.

idk i was watching the game with no audio on a 1 foot by 1 foot tv yesterday but chester was doing well the first couple games when we ran the stretch, he was using his feet and getting into the second level like he is supposed to . .just no dang holes at all the last couple of weeks. 29 rushing yds, with the qb getting half of those is bad.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:28 PM   #154
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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How much OL depth do teams really have? I you lose two starters and it's pretty inevitable you're going to have some start some playing some retreads or inexperienced guys.
phi normally keeps 10 and has 8 that can start without giving up 9 sacks.

we were short 3 backups coming into the season. cook and locklear are the only backups we really have, and they're fairly low tier #2s. Ideally brown would be our 6th OL and not starting, and chester wouldn't be starting either.

I was shocked we didn't sign anyone good in the offseason (if anyone cares to check). If we got a new RG/RT and pushed those two to backupp status, we'd still need another backup OG and an upgrade to cook.

You can get by with average WRs and a decent QB if the line is good. 9 sacks and 30 yards rushing or whatever it was is beyond pathetic though.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:45 PM   #155
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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Agree. The decision to get rid of a washed up player like Artis Hicks is not what is ailing this team right now.
Keeping a million WRs at the expense of good O-line depth is certainly hurting us. I don't care who is throwing the ball or who is catching it, we can't run the ball, and we have no time to throw (although from what I hear a few of those sacks were on Beck, not the line).

The defense is going backwards, the offense was never there to begin with, and we can't run the ball or stop the run. Barring a big turnaround, we may only win 1 or 2 more games. At this point I'm not even confident in the Miami game.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:48 PM   #156
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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Not buying the injures excuse. Every team has them and the better teams/organizations overcome them. The Eagles had O-line issues and they overcame them. Yesterday I saw a team that was outcoached. If your o-line is having trouble blocking a below average Bills d-line then make adjustments. Leave in more blockers, run some 3 step drops, run a screen or two, roll the pocket, run some quick hitting run plays...we did none of this yesterday!!!!! No adjustments!!!!!!!! You know where I'm going with this. Kyle needs to go. Yeah he can run an offense when everything is perfect for him. Most NFL OC's can. But what makes a really good OC is when a guy see's what he has and works a game plan or a system around that. See Jim Harbaugh, Chan Gailey and whoever the OC is for Carolina. I mean Jim Harbaugh is throwing passes to his O-linemen yesterday. Those guys can coach offense. Kyle can not, or can't when the chips are down. Oh yeah...Chad Rinehart is a starter on the Bills o-line! Ouch!

Injuries in our case is HUGE. We haven't put an emphasis on building depth for 10 years, so when starters go down it is a very big problem. As far as playcalling ability, Kyle was trying to roll out but Beck was missing some receivers that were open, tried some quick 3 step drops to get the ball out of his hands, but he was holding the ball or the receivers were not getting open. Having a whole new left side of the line causes issues all over the offense. We couldn't run, we couldn't pass protect so what else is there? Chan Gailey, SF, and Carolina have bonified playmakers on their team. Whether is Fitzpatrick, Fred Jackson, Steve Johnson on the bills, Frank Gore, Edwards, Vernon Davis, Crabtree on SF or Cam newton, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart and STEVE " FREAKING" SMITH, along with greg olson and Shocky. so before you start calling out WHY other teams are better, they have better players. Those teams have used their draft picks over the last 5-7 years to gain those playmakers, we have not!! Lets not call out the coaching staff, they are dealing with what they have on the roster and are making it better. Kyle ran a very impressive offense in Houston for a few years, so I doubt he forgot how to coach.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:50 PM   #157
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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Keeping a million WRs at the expense of good O-line depth is certainly hurting us. I don't care who is throwing the ball or who is catching it, we can't run the ball, and we have no time to throw (although from what I hear a few of those sacks were on Beck, not the line).

The defense is going backwards, the offense was never there to begin with, and we can't run the ball or stop the run. Barring a big turnaround, we may only win 1 or 2 more games. At this point I'm not even confident in the Miami game.
No. We're not going to be favored the rest of the season. My expectation is a 2-7 finish.

I can't think of any good reason why Donte Stallworth is here. I have a hypothesis though. I think he was kept because Shanahan didn't want to develop the reputation as a guy who will sign vets to one year contracts and just cut them at the end of camp.

Which is a pretty good idea. Until Donte Stallworth starts getting end arounds and third down targets. Then its awful.

Moss is injured and Stallworth is still useless.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:56 PM   #158
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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Keeping a million WRs at the expense of good O-line depth is certainly hurting us. I don't care who is throwing the ball or who is catching it, we can't run the ball, and we have no time to throw (although from what I hear a few of those sacks were on Beck, not the line).

The defense is going backwards, the offense was never there to begin with, and we can't run the ball or stop the run. Barring a big turnaround, we may only win 1 or 2 more games. At this point I'm not even confident in the Miami game.
Artis Hicks and Donte Stallworth are essentially the same, except one guy plays a different position from the other. They will provide $0 worth of goods for us or anyone else one year from now. We need guys who have at least have a chance to be a million dollar player for us for multiple years, so we should be allocating our limited roster spots to prospects who have a chance to give us that, not old coots who do very little.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:00 PM   #159
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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Keep Allen. Fire the Shanahans and "Has-been" Haslett.
I agree totally this team has quit. Gibbs teams did not quit. We need character guys, not yes men. I think the Shannahan's have the two confused. The players they got rid of would not have quit. They would've talked smack after the game but would not have quit.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:05 PM   #160
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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Injuries in our case is HUGE. We haven't put an emphasis on building depth for 10 years, so when starters go down it is a very big problem. As far as playcalling ability, Kyle was trying to roll out but Beck was missing some receivers that were open, tried some quick 3 step drops to get the ball out of his hands, but he was holding the ball or the receivers were not getting open. Having a whole new left side of the line causes issues all over the offense. We couldn't run, we couldn't pass protect so what else is there? Chan Gailey, SF, and Carolina have bonified playmakers on their team. Whether is Fitzpatrick, Fred Jackson, Steve Johnson on the bills, Frank Gore, Edwards, Vernon Davis, Crabtree on SF or Cam newton, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart and STEVE " FREAKING" SMITH, along with greg olson and Shocky. so before you start calling out WHY other teams are better, they have better players. Those teams have used their draft picks over the last 5-7 years to gain those playmakers, we have not!! Lets not call out the coaching staff, they are dealing with what they have on the roster and are making it better. Kyle ran a very impressive offense in Houston for a few years, so I doubt he forgot how to coach.
Ta da!!! Kyle was running Kubiak's offense in Houston. Truth be told that was Kubiak not Kyle. He was an offensive head coach's offensive coordinator. We always crying about players, but then they go to other teams and start. The Shanny's have had 2 off seasons and made no progress. They too busy bullying players instead of developing them.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:10 PM   #161
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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Artis Hicks and Donte Stallworth are essentially the same, except one guy plays a different position from the other. They will provide $0 worth of goods for us or anyone else one year from now. We need guys who have at least have a chance to be a million dollar player for us for multiple years, so we should be allocating our limited roster spots to prospects who have a chance to give us that, not old coots who do very little.
While I agree that developing a multitude of young players is important, what we've done with our O-line depth is laughable. We have pretty much zero depth to speak of, and instead opt to carry 8 or 9 receivers. I have no love for Artis Hicks, I was simply using him as an example of some veteran depth along an O-line that can't afford to have Maurice Hurt in the starting lineup.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:10 PM   #162
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

Kyle blows. and yes Houston was kubiak. not Kyle
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:13 PM   #163
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

Unaccustomed as I am to being part of the optimism faction here, let me give this a try...

A large part of the distress that folks here are expressing in completely unambiguous terms comes from the fact that those same folks allowed themselves to harbor unrealistic expectations in the past. Let me give a few examples:

Jamaal Brown: When he signed on here, there was euphoria because the Skins got a Pro Bowl caliber tackle to play opposite the #4 pick in the draft at the other tackle and as soon as Brown worked out the kinks from an injury he would resume that level of play and even surpass it. Those two were going to make Redskin fans forget about Lachey and Jacoby as offensive tackles. Excuse me, Jamaal Brown had a good year on a very good team and received more accolades than his play on the field merited; then he got hurt; then the Redskins signed a hurt player with exaggerated press clippings. Today we have folks saying he sucks. Actually, he never returned to the level he had achieved prior to his injury; he does not suck; he is merely average to slightly below average for an OT.

LaRon Landry: People love his big highlight reel head shots. Trouble is, that is all he has in his game bag. He has NEVER been able to cover a turtle with a mattress blanket; he spends waaay too much time chasing someone who has the ball into the end zone. (Remember DeSean Jackson on Play One of the 59-28 debacle last year...?) He has never been held accountable for giving up big plays as a safety so all he does is continue to do the only thing he knows how to do - - make the highlight reel with a headshot. That is your "safety"; he is the guy who gives up TDs when he makes a mistake; he makes lots of mistakes. But it is the fanbase who has adored him for his big hits who feels the pain because they expect him to actually be an effective safety and he is not. [By the way, isn't this Landry's contract year? I think it is. Right now, would you give him a "payday" and a 5-year deal? I would not.]


THE QUARTERBACKS: When Mike Shanahan was hired fans went overboard on his "offensive genius" credentials. Make no mistake, Mike Shanahan has a good offensive mind, but a large component of his "genius reputation" comes from having Steve Young as his QB in SF and John Elway as his QB in Denver. He did not pick either one; he did not groom either one; he designed plays those guys could execute to beat the other team. He had no QB when he got here; he tried to get one and it did not work; he now has two guys who would need to improve to become journeymen. It isn't their fault they aren't stars; it isn't Mike Shanahan's either. Fans expected waaay too much from day one. By the way, the last true "Franchise QB" the Redskins had was Sonny Jurgensen. Sonny is in his 70s now; nevertheless, if he had six weeks to prepare and get his arm loose, he might be able to match either of the current dudes in one of those QB Skills Contests...


Kyle Shanahan: He got the OC job in Houston because Gary Kubiak had been Mike Shanahan's OC in Denver since forever and there Kyle had a better-than-average QB and a STUD WR to play with. Fans bought into the Kyle-hype; he had accomplished good things in Houston; he had the "Shanahan genes"; he would work magic. Right now, he is underachieving even considering the limited talent he has to work with here to the point that I am not sure he would be able to get another OC position in the NFL if Dad were to can his butt at the end of this season. BTW, that is one of the best arguments to demonstrate why nepotism is always a bad idea...

Ryan Torrain: He never was much of an all-around back. He had two good games and fans gave him a nickname and started predicting 1500-yard seasons for him in the Mike Shanahan running game. Just as offenses work better with Steve Young and John Elway at QB, running games do better with a competent OL. And that leads me to...


The OL: And this OL is not competent and don't blame the injuries. The OL has stunk here for about 5-7 years and it now has a bunch of young guys playing there who aren't very good instead of a bunch of old guys who aren't very good.


WRs: When was the last time the Skins had a WR that made other defensive coordinators think about building their game plan to contain him? Gary Clark? Charlie Taylor? Bobby Mitchell? But let one of these current guys go and make two tough catches in a single game and the fans are ready to nominate him for the Pro Bowl. Expectations are waaay out of line.


Yesterday the Redskins wet the bed. The best thing to say about that game was that it was not one of the nationally televised games so it was not seen in sixty or seventy NFL markets. The team performed badly on the field; the game plan was certainly not effective - - that could be due to bad play on the field or bad game planning. The team has lost 3 in a row and has been less than exciting in any of those 3 games.

If this team does not come out with plenty of emotion to start this week's game, then I will hang a lot of responsibility on the coaches for not finding the right buttons to push. Even playing with emotion, this team can lose next weekend; but there MUST be some fire and brimstone on the field for the first couple of series next week. THERE MUST BE!!!
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:27 PM   #164
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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LaRon Landry: People love his big highlight reel head shots. Trouble is, that is all he has in his game bag. He has NEVER been able to cover a turtle with a mattress blanket; he spends waaay too much time chasing someone who has the ball into the end zone. (Remember DeSean Jackson on Play One of the 59-28 debacle last year...?) He has never been held accountable for giving up big plays as a safety so all he does is continue to do the only thing he knows how to do - - make the highlight reel with a headshot. That is your "safety"; he is the guy who gives up TDs when he makes a mistake; he makes lots of mistakes. But it is the fanbase who has adored him for his big hits who feels the pain because they expect him to actually be an effective safety and he is not. [By the way, isn't this Landry's contract year? I think it is. Right now, would you give him a "payday" and a 5-year deal? I would not.]
I think Laron Landry can thank D. Hall for getting him off the hook on this one, because very few people criticize Landry for giving up big plays. On a serious note, I think our defensive backs continue to have communication issues, hence the example from yesterday when Fletcher went off on Landry for a blown coverage. I know at the beginning of the season, communication was an issue due to the lack of practice/playing time. But now Haslett needs to figure out how to make that unit work.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:29 PM   #165
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Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

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Injuries in our case is HUGE. We haven't put an emphasis on building depth for 10 years, so when starters go down it is a very big problem. As far as playcalling ability, Kyle was trying to roll out but Beck was missing some receivers that were open, tried some quick 3 step drops to get the ball out of his hands, but he was holding the ball or the receivers were not getting open. Having a whole new left side of the line causes issues all over the offense. We couldn't run, we couldn't pass protect so what else is there? Chan Gailey, SF, and Carolina have bonified playmakers on their team. Whether is Fitzpatrick, Fred Jackson, Steve Johnson on the bills, Frank Gore, Edwards, Vernon Davis, Crabtree on SF or Cam newton, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart and STEVE " FREAKING" SMITH, along with greg olson and Shocky. so before you start calling out WHY other teams are better, they have better players. Those teams have used their draft picks over the last 5-7 years to gain those playmakers, we have not!! Lets not call out the coaching staff, they are dealing with what they have on the roster and are making it better. Kyle ran a very impressive offense in Houston for a few years, so I doubt he forgot how to coach.
Are you serious? SF's offense was pathetic last year. Harbaugh has come in there and given that offense an identity. He's instilled confidence in that offense! What's our identity?? One freakin run play and run some stupid ass reverses and then throw the ball and not protect your passer??? And I'm 100% calling out the coaching staff cause they got shut out by a 31st ranked defense!!!!! As I said, if your offense sucks then fine, but AT LEAST show me that you're trying! Show me some diversity! Buffalo ran the wildcat so why aren't we? Why didn't we keep feeding Hankerson after he made a nice play? Why do we have one run play? Why do they rotate 50 wr's every week? Why don't we keep in extra blockers? I could go on and on. Kyle sucked shit yesterday and he's sucked for pretty much the entire year. No way to sugar coat it. FIRE YOUR KID MIKE. ENOUGH!!!!
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