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Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Old 11-15-2011, 11:23 AM   #61
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

The "suck for Luck" debate is an interesting case of ethics at work.

I am just making a comment.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:28 AM   #62
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
One of the most storied NBA franchises, the Boston Celtics, recently "tanked" to try to get the top pick. I don't think Celtics fans care one way or another about it to be honest.

Not saying we should tank, just playing Devil's Advocate.
The NBA system, or former system, led to a lot of that, though I never heard anyone say it directly. The guaranteed contracts & cap put teams in a position to gut the roster for financial & competitive reasons. The Wizards did it a couple years ago & it was obvious to any fan that they were starting over.

Easier to do when there are 2-3 big contracts that can be offloaded to create huge cap space. The NFL is harder to do that in w/guaranteed money escalating in trades, but I think you see plenty of teams purging players & cap space. It may not be tanking per se but it's often implied.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:41 AM   #63
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
One of the most storied NBA franchises, the Boston Celtics, recently "tanked" to try to get the top pick. I don't think Celtics fans care one way or another about it to be honest.

Not saying we should tank, just playing Devil's Advocate.
Well in that case tanking didn't exactly result in them winning, because they didn't get the top pick they wanted to go after Oden or Durant. They just got lucky that Minny was willing to trade Garnett.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:44 AM   #64
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

Ruhskins and freddy, I agree with everything you have said. I am just making the point that "tanking" happens with major storied franchises.

Does the structure of the NBA make it morally ok, or less wrong, to tank? To me, tanking is tanking.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:48 AM   #65
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Ruhskins and freddy, I agree with everything you have said. I am just making the point that "tanking" happens with major storied franchises.

Does the structure of the NBA make it morally ok, or less wrong, to tank? To me, tanking is tanking.
Gotcha.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:56 AM   #66
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

Hey can we now rename Davis and Williams to "Cheech and Chong"?
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:10 PM   #67
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
One of the most storied NBA franchises, the Boston Celtics, recently "tanked" to try to get the top pick. I don't think Celtics fans care one way or another about it to be honest.

Not saying we should tank, just playing Devil's Advocate.
I'm a huge Celtics fan and have been for over 40 years. You're right. I don't care that they tanked that one season away. Danny Ainge and the Celtics were pretty honest with their fan base. They didn't admit to tanking per say but we knew from the day Ainge took over that he planned to accumulate assets and turn those assets into another superstars or in this case two superstars to pair with Paul Pierce. He spelled that out in the first month he was on board. Had he not gotten that high pick(#5 if memory serves me right) and drafted well for a few years he never lands Ray Allen and therefore Kevin Garnett never relents to be traded to Boston.

The problem with the Skins is for the past almost 20 years it seems there hasn't ever been a plan or a plan that Snyder has stuck with long enough see it succeed. For the first time in a long time it seems like Allen/Shannahan have a plan for the Redskins IMO. I felt this way when Ainge took over in Boston but it took him almost 5 years to turn straw into gold. At least he had a plan which was something the Celtics hadn't seen since Auerbach all but retired in the late 80's. It worked out in Boston. I hope it does the same in Washington but it take time and patience to see it through.

I'm willing to see a couple of bad seasons because that's what it takes to rebuild a terribly run team as the Skins have been for a long time. I still root for them every Sunday like I rooted for the not ready for prime time Celtics Pre-Big Three but I'm realistic. The Skin's don't currently have the talent to contend. It is time this fan base and it's owner realizes that and be patient.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:03 PM   #68
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by TrustinGibbs View Post
I'm a huge Celtics fan and have been for over 40 years. You're right. I don't care that they tanked that one season away. Danny Ainge and the Celtics were pretty honest with their fan base. They didn't admit to tanking per say but we knew from the day Ainge took over that he planned to accumulate assets and turn those assets into another superstars or in this case two superstars to pair with Paul Pierce. He spelled that out in the first month he was on board. Had he not gotten that high pick(#5 if memory serves me right) and drafted well for a few years he never lands Ray Allen and therefore Kevin Garnett never relents to be traded to Boston.

The problem with the Skins is for the past almost 20 years it seems there hasn't ever been a plan or a plan that Snyder has stuck with long enough see it succeed. For the first time in a long time it seems like Allen/Shannahan have a plan for the Redskins IMO. I felt this way when Ainge took over in Boston but it took him almost 5 years to turn straw into gold. At least he had a plan which was something the Celtics hadn't seen since Auerbach all but retired in the late 80's. It worked out in Boston. I hope it does the same in Washington but it take time and patience to see it through.

I'm willing to see a couple of bad seasons because that's what it takes to rebuild a terribly run team as the Skins have been for a long time. I still root for them every Sunday like I rooted for the not ready for prime time Celtics Pre-Big Three but I'm realistic. The Skin's don't currently have the talent to contend. It is time this fan base and it's owner realizes that and be patient.
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:29 PM   #69
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
I know I'm just focusing on one portion of your statement, but I just can't seem to wrap my mind around that. And I respect your desire for us to Suck for Luck, but as a fan, I can't stand seeing my team losing even if it does mean getting an all-star player next season. And as someone who used to play team sports, I can't just give up even if we were a bad team.

I just can't root for or respect a team of quitters.
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:12 AM   #70
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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I respectfully offer that you have missed my point. The point never was that Suck for Luck is exactly like being a soldier. The point was that "cowardly" and "rational" are not logical opposites.

Wanting Luck is not cowardly. We all would like to have Luck. However, leaving your team to suffer, even hoping that your team suffers, is cowardly.

But since you don't like the word "coward," please feel free to use DynamiteRave's term instead: rooting for your team to lose is the path of a "quitter."
No, I don't see the point in bring up dead soldiers or how they have anything to do with a horrible football team. Maybe you've never seen a dead soldier, but it's kind of offensive to me. You're entitled to your opinion, but realizing your team sucks isn't cowardly, it's realistic.

I'm not rooting for them to fail, but I'm not really seeing too many wins in the future. If you'd like to play the blind optimist, because, that's like, really brave, I'll do $20 a game for the rest of the season, taking them for a loss every time.

And how is anyone "leaving their team to suffer" ? are the redskins losing because we're not cheering hard enough, or because a butterfly posted on a message board about them not being good enough? and, as you know, the media's coverage is also hugely responsible for wins and losses...
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:19 AM   #71
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