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Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Old 11-15-2011, 12:07 AM   #61
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by CultBrennan59 View Post
I'd rather root for my team to lose one year, and root for them to win the rest of my life, than root for an inconsistent, broken, gives you hope but fails franchise year after year after year.

Also on the whole cowboys thing why would I go from one dysfunctional franchise to another..
I know I'm just focusing on one portion of your statement, but I just can't seem to wrap my mind around that. And I respect your desire for us to Suck for Luck, but as a fan, I can't stand seeing my team losing even if it does mean getting an all-star player next season. And as someone who used to play team sports, I can't just give up even if we were a bad team.

I just can't root for or respect a team of quitters.
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:27 AM   #62
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

I fail to see how wanting luck is cowardly or in any way like leaving a soldier to die. can we please stop being ridiculous and over the top? thanks.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:25 AM   #63
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by CultBrennan59 View Post
I'd rather root for my team to lose one year, and root for them to win the rest of my life, than root for an inconsistent, broken, gives you hope but fails franchise year after year after year.

Also on the whole cowboys thing why would I go from one dysfunctional franchise to another..
Your statement is a false either/or. Those aren't the only two possible outcomes. That makes your statement irrational.

Further, rooting for your team to lose is cowardly.

So I'll end this conversation by saying that I get you now. You not only argue for irrational and cowardly things, you will insist on doing so.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:29 AM   #64
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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I fail to see how wanting luck is cowardly or in any way like leaving a soldier to die. can we please stop being ridiculous and over the top? thanks.
I respectfully offer that you have missed my point. The point never was that Suck for Luck is exactly like being a soldier. The point was that "cowardly" and "rational" are not logical opposites.

Wanting Luck is not cowardly. We all would like to have Luck. However, leaving your team to suffer, even hoping that your team suffers, is cowardly.

But since you don't like the word "coward," please feel free to use DynamiteRave's term instead: rooting for your team to lose is the path of a "quitter."
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:52 AM   #65
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
I know I'm just focusing on one portion of your statement, but I just can't seem to wrap my mind around that. And I respect your desire for us to Suck for Luck, but as a fan, I can't stand seeing my team losing even if it does mean getting an all-star player next season. And as someone who used to play team sports, I can't just give up even if we were a bad team.

I just can't root for or respect a team of quitters.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:19 AM   #66
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

One of the most storied NBA franchises, the Boston Celtics, recently "tanked" to try to get the top pick. I don't think Celtics fans care one way or another about it to be honest.

Not saying we should tank, just playing Devil's Advocate.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:23 AM   #67
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

The "suck for Luck" debate is an interesting case of ethics at work.

I am just making a comment.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:28 AM   #68
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
One of the most storied NBA franchises, the Boston Celtics, recently "tanked" to try to get the top pick. I don't think Celtics fans care one way or another about it to be honest.

Not saying we should tank, just playing Devil's Advocate.
The NBA system, or former system, led to a lot of that, though I never heard anyone say it directly. The guaranteed contracts & cap put teams in a position to gut the roster for financial & competitive reasons. The Wizards did it a couple years ago & it was obvious to any fan that they were starting over.

Easier to do when there are 2-3 big contracts that can be offloaded to create huge cap space. The NFL is harder to do that in w/guaranteed money escalating in trades, but I think you see plenty of teams purging players & cap space. It may not be tanking per se but it's often implied.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:41 AM   #69
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
One of the most storied NBA franchises, the Boston Celtics, recently "tanked" to try to get the top pick. I don't think Celtics fans care one way or another about it to be honest.

Not saying we should tank, just playing Devil's Advocate.
Well in that case tanking didn't exactly result in them winning, because they didn't get the top pick they wanted to go after Oden or Durant. They just got lucky that Minny was willing to trade Garnett.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:44 AM   #70
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

Ruhskins and freddy, I agree with everything you have said. I am just making the point that "tanking" happens with major storied franchises.

Does the structure of the NBA make it morally ok, or less wrong, to tank? To me, tanking is tanking.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:48 AM   #71
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Ruhskins and freddy, I agree with everything you have said. I am just making the point that "tanking" happens with major storied franchises.

Does the structure of the NBA make it morally ok, or less wrong, to tank? To me, tanking is tanking.
Gotcha.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:56 AM   #72
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

Hey can we now rename Davis and Williams to "Cheech and Chong"?
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:10 PM   #73
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by hooskins View Post
One of the most storied NBA franchises, the Boston Celtics, recently "tanked" to try to get the top pick. I don't think Celtics fans care one way or another about it to be honest.

Not saying we should tank, just playing Devil's Advocate.
I'm a huge Celtics fan and have been for over 40 years. You're right. I don't care that they tanked that one season away. Danny Ainge and the Celtics were pretty honest with their fan base. They didn't admit to tanking per say but we knew from the day Ainge took over that he planned to accumulate assets and turn those assets into another superstars or in this case two superstars to pair with Paul Pierce. He spelled that out in the first month he was on board. Had he not gotten that high pick(#5 if memory serves me right) and drafted well for a few years he never lands Ray Allen and therefore Kevin Garnett never relents to be traded to Boston.

The problem with the Skins is for the past almost 20 years it seems there hasn't ever been a plan or a plan that Snyder has stuck with long enough see it succeed. For the first time in a long time it seems like Allen/Shannahan have a plan for the Redskins IMO. I felt this way when Ainge took over in Boston but it took him almost 5 years to turn straw into gold. At least he had a plan which was something the Celtics hadn't seen since Auerbach all but retired in the late 80's. It worked out in Boston. I hope it does the same in Washington but it take time and patience to see it through.

I'm willing to see a couple of bad seasons because that's what it takes to rebuild a terribly run team as the Skins have been for a long time. I still root for them every Sunday like I rooted for the not ready for prime time Celtics Pre-Big Three but I'm realistic. The Skin's don't currently have the talent to contend. It is time this fan base and it's owner realizes that and be patient.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:03 PM   #74
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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I'm a huge Celtics fan and have been for over 40 years. You're right. I don't care that they tanked that one season away. Danny Ainge and the Celtics were pretty honest with their fan base. They didn't admit to tanking per say but we knew from the day Ainge took over that he planned to accumulate assets and turn those assets into another superstars or in this case two superstars to pair with Paul Pierce. He spelled that out in the first month he was on board. Had he not gotten that high pick(#5 if memory serves me right) and drafted well for a few years he never lands Ray Allen and therefore Kevin Garnett never relents to be traded to Boston.

The problem with the Skins is for the past almost 20 years it seems there hasn't ever been a plan or a plan that Snyder has stuck with long enough see it succeed. For the first time in a long time it seems like Allen/Shannahan have a plan for the Redskins IMO. I felt this way when Ainge took over in Boston but it took him almost 5 years to turn straw into gold. At least he had a plan which was something the Celtics hadn't seen since Auerbach all but retired in the late 80's. It worked out in Boston. I hope it does the same in Washington but it take time and patience to see it through.

I'm willing to see a couple of bad seasons because that's what it takes to rebuild a terribly run team as the Skins have been for a long time. I still root for them every Sunday like I rooted for the not ready for prime time Celtics Pre-Big Three but I'm realistic. The Skin's don't currently have the talent to contend. It is time this fan base and it's owner realizes that and be patient.
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:20 PM   #75
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Re: Report: Trent Williams and Fred Davis Facing Suspension

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Originally Posted by DynamiteRave View Post
I know I'm just focusing on one portion of your statement, but I just can't seem to wrap my mind around that. And I respect your desire for us to Suck for Luck, but as a fan, I can't stand seeing my team losing even if it does mean getting an all-star player next season. And as someone who used to play team sports, I can't just give up even if we were a bad team.

I just can't root for or respect a team of quitters.
This is true, respectable, and a much better answer than other people have been giving.

The whole root of my argument and bottom line, was basically "don't be mad skin fans when Andrew Lucks making Pro Bowl after Pro Bowl and appearing in Super Bowls, being like Oh we could have had him!" Ya we could have if we had sucked! We already suck enough to win 3 games, whats the difference between winning 3 games and 1? (Its a rhetorical question. Don't answer with 2)

Last edited by CultBrennan59; 11-16-2011 at 03:46 AM.
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